16” max length barrel. What caliber are you going with?

[loadsandlattes]

None. That’s too far for a sawed off barrel. I have a Ruger Super Blackhawk pistol with a barrel nearly that long. 600 yards is a challenge to lots of guy with standard barrel lengths.

I understand... but that's not necessarily always true. I am not a great shooter. I'm about average. That said, I spent all afternoon Sunday hitting 12x12 & 20x20 steel targets from 200-1000 yards out of a 16" creedmoor with 147gr ELDM factory loads.

This isn't a custom rifle. Just a Savage 110 High Country chopped down to 16" with a Vortex PST Gen II 5x25.

With good dope and cooperating winds I didn't struggle much.

 

[wildwilderness]

I am also contemplating a light weight compact mountain rifle so have looked at a lot of the options.

Barrel length is not a limitation by itself, its adding the suppressor that limits the amount of powder in the cartridge to not blow up your can

I see the lack of reloading as a bigger factor in limited cartridge selection and bullet options. For example Hammer Bullets makes some super fast bullets that would easily add 100-200 fps back you loose from a short barrel. Also it rules out some of the best options like the SAUM case or the .284 wildcat cases.

The other limitation you have is elk@ 600. Personally having killed many elk and moose and seen more shot. They are tough. So I always have a different setup (at least 7mm, preferably 30 cal or larger) for large animals vs a light weight setup for deer/sheep etc. that are not hard to kill.

based on all that, would still be hard to beat the 6.5 PRC! That’s what I’m leaning towards myself

 

[ID_Matt]

That is a pretty tall order to get a 16" barrel that works with a suppressor and still has enough energy to be good to 600 on elk. 7 SAUM and 6.5 PRC would be my recommendations though but I don't know that I would want anything less than 20". I don't know if it has been mentioned yet, but if length is the concern, what about getting a folding stock like the XLR? Then you could still run 22 or 24 barrel and be plenty short for throwing on a backpack or a UTV.

 

[Brightwhite]

That is a pretty tall order to get a 16" barrel that works with a suppressor and still has enough energy to be good to 600 on elk. 7 SAUM and 6.5 PRC would be my recommendations though but I don't know that I would want anything less than 20". I don't know if it has been mentioned yet, but if length is the concern, what about getting a folding stock like the XLR? Then you could still run 22 or 24 barrel and be plenty short for throwing on a backpack or a UTV.

Exactly what I was about to recommend. I would go 20” and you won’t be limited by caliber/cartridges with your can and the folding XLR chassis is great, I have 1 and a 2nd in order. I am building a 22” 7saum to run a ultra 7 can on with the XLr chassis.

Also, someone mentioned the Thunderbeast Ultra 5 above. I have one, not in love with it. It keeps the blast down, but I would not want to shoot much more than a 6.5cm through it with out ear pro in a hunting scenario.

 

[AaronMColeman]

Way too many things to consider. What weight bullet will you shoot through the barrel and will the twist rate stabilize that weight before leaving the barrel? I suspect the answer for most heavier bullets is no. That said, you will be limited on ammo and bullet weight. I would really discuss this with whoever is building it. If the only requirements are sub-20" and elk power at 600 yards, I think a .308 is ideal. I know .308 hasn't been sexy since the 50s, but it is probably the most versatile round I can think of.

Under 20" you have a lot of options. I'd probably go with something super versatile and available like a .308. My reasoning is a super short barrel will be much pickier about ammo than a longer barrel (generally speaking, because a longer barrel can stabilize the bullet, a shorter barrel will be more trial and error to find a consistently accurate round). It'll be nice to have more ammo options.

All that said, I'd probably allow myself up to 22" or so for a short mountain rifle. It wont' weight much more and will likely shoot better...but that's my opinion and it's worth about nothing.

 

[trophyhill]

The 10 Best AR-10s in 2020 | Improb

Admirable.

improb.com

 

[Alaskanopolis]

Is that the standard chassis not the magnesium one? What does that setup weigh? Im really liking that.

It’s the magnesium one. Just under 8lbs as shown in the picture with the seven round mag and nightforce. Should lose about 6oz with aluminum 3 shot mags. With a maven rs.2 and the cheek piece off it’s under 7. With the McMillen that was on it it was around 6.5lbs.

 

[Wapiti1]

It’s the magnesium one. Just under 8lbs as shown in the picture with the seven round mag and nightforce. Should lose about 6oz with aluminum 3 shot mags. With a maven rs.2 and the cheek piece off it’s under 7. With the McMillen that was on it it was around 6.5lbs.

That is a neat rifle. Whose grip is that? Honestly, I'd keep the McMillan on it, but I prefer a classic stock.

I would suggest the OP look at your build closer. It fits his needs about as well as you can. If factory ammo is a concern, bump up to a .338 Win and be done with it.

Jeremy

 

[Alaskanopolis]

That is a neat rifle. Whose grip is that? Honestly, I'd keep the McMillan on it, but I prefer a classic stock.

I would suggest the OP look at your build closer. It fits his needs about as well as you can. If factory ammo is a concern, bump up to a .338 Win and be done with it.

Jeremy

It’s XLR’s titanium grip. I might put the McMillen back on it, haven’t decided yet. I’m gointo to shoot it a bit and see how I feel.

 

[Formidilosus]

It’s interesting to read people who don’t have much or any experience with something talk about that thing. And I’m still waiting for the mythical “tough” elk that don’t die from chest shots....

There is a whole segment that uses short barrels at long range, including using them for killing animals. There isn’t an elk alive that will walk away from someone that knows what they’re doing with a 16” barreled Creedmoor or PRC. Any load with a 130 or 140gr Berger VLD, ELD-M or ELD-X that impacts with 1,800fps and you’re good.
708, 308, etc will be more difficult due reduced MV and lower BC per grain. 7mm and 30 cal mags will do it, but recoil is more than the 6.5’s and doesn’t get you much. 338 anything is just a no. Velocity/BC does not work out that short.

 

[wildwilderness]

I am still waiting to meet the “mythical perfect hunter” who has never made a bad shot .

Sure any elk will die with a perfect double Lung shot through the chest with any bullet with adequate expansion. It’s when you DON’T make the perfect shot that extra energy, etc matter....

 

[Where's Bruce?]

I pumped 3 hot Buffalo Bore 45-70 Govt rounds into the vitals of a bull at 200 yards. It just stood there. After the 3rd round i realized I had run off after it without my pack and my spare bullets were in the belt pocket on it. So I sat there and watched for like 2-3 minutes before the damn thing crashed. Barely moved. That one messed with my head.

 

[Formidilosus]

It’s when you DON’T make the perfect shot that extra energy, etc matter....

So how does extra “energy” help? And how much extra “energy” is required to turn a bad shot into a good shot?

 

[lyle_destroys]

So how does extra “energy” help? And how much extra “energy” is required to turn a bad shot into a good shot?

OP said he was only looking to shoot to about 600 yards. How much of a difference will a slight increase in bc with a 6.5 make over other options? Enough to determine miss/hit vitals.
I've pretty new to shooting at extended ranges and I know you have more experience than most on this forum, but I agree with others that increased frontal bullet diameter results in increased energy transfer which yields better results in marginal hits.

 

[Todd N]

308 with Hornady Superperformance SST 150gr.

 

[Formidilosus]

OP said he was only looking to shoot to about 600 yards. How much of a difference will a slight increase in bc with a 6.5 make over other options? Enough to determine miss/hit vitals.
I've pretty new to shooting at extended ranges and I know you have more experience than most on this forum, but I agree with others that increased frontal bullet diameter results in increased energy transfer which yields better results in marginal hits.

That slight increase in BC makes it where you get sufficient impact velocity for bullet upset.

Starting frontal bullet diameter is not ending frontal bullet diameter, nor does ending frontal bullet diameter equal wound size.

I’m being serious here, but I’m looking for facts, not feelings or beliefs- How much more bullet frontal diameter does it take for increased energy transfer to turn a marginal hit into a good one on an elk? Is there a relationship between the percentage of marginal hits and recoil?

 

[Formidilosus]

308 with Hornady Superperformance SST 150gr.

Drops below required velocity for upset well before 600 yards.

 

[lyle_destroys]

I

That slight increase in BC makes it where you get sufficient impact velocity for bullet upset.

Starting frontal billet diameter is not ending frontal bullet diameter, nor does ending frontal bullet diameter equal wound size.

Im being serious here, but I’m looking for facts, not feelings or beliefs- How much more bullet frontal diameter does it take for increased energy transfer to turn a marginal hit into a good one on an elk? Is there a relationship between the percentage of marginal hits and recoil?

I think way too much of the proof is anecdotal evidence, which can't compete with verified things like bc and sd.
I think bullet selection would have a major role in this also, I assume a .264 berger is going to have a different effect on an elk compared to a .338 barnes.

 

[dwent]

I’ll second the folder option. I’m building a 300PRC on a 24” proof carbon barrel. Not the shortest barrel for a hunting rifle but if I decide to go suppressed down the road, being able to fold the stock cuts the length significantly. I’m going with the MPA BA ultralite, which is a 2.5 pound chassis. Might come out a few oz heavier with the folding option.

 

[ElDudarino]

I’ve killed a cow at 650 with a 16” suppressed.308 but I get paid to shoot about 1200 rounds a year through that gun and had ZERO doubts about the shot.

Ive killed and seen bulls killed with 6.5 creeds outta 24” barrels. 6.5 prc outta a shorty would probably get you near the same velocity. I liked what I saw from the 6.5 over the .308 both using hornady eldx.

6.5 prc would be my pick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk