143 ELD-X blew up on the shoulder?

[EcoastDG]

And that should be a clue.

Something is there besides a perfectly broadside deer taking a 143gr projectile that hit nothing in front of it- only penetrating two inches with no evidence that would be plainly visible to show that.

Thinking back to my experience with the same bullet, this makes perfect sense now. My first shot most likely hit some sage brush the buck was standing in.

 

[MidGAHunter]

@Harvey_NW what happened to the deer standing in front of the deer in the OP that the bullet passed through?

That bullet either hit an object or went through another animal. There is no way that the bullet recovered in the picture first contacted the deer in the OP...it hit something else first.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

This is not really surprising to me at all, I've personally witnessed a 143 eldx blow apart on an elk scapula from a creedmoor at 300 yards.

That bullet did not hit heavy bone it literally came apart entirely in the dense muscle, I autopsied it in detail.

And no there was zero chance it hit a branch, the bull was in wide open meadow.

I've done the same thing with a 147 eldm on an elk shoulder, these tipped bullets are splashy at closer ranges in my experience.
I still love how fast they kill at long range though

Would you be able or willing to post photos of your “detailed autopsy” please? I’d be very curious to see the detailed report.

 

[alpine_troop]

I think there is also substantial room for error when judging an animal’s exact orientation to us. What someone perceived as ‘perfectly broadside’ could have actually been a bit more of a quartering angle than they realized. I have observing this myself in shots on an elk that I perceived as broadside, when in fact upon skinning the bull it was clearly evident that there was a slight quartering away orientation to the first shot wound path, resulting in the 178 ELDX from a .308 ending up primarily in the brisket. Little, if any, of that bullet affected the vitals, and follow-up shots were necessary.

My point is, at what degree of rotation around the vertical axis of an animal are we judging the transition from broadside to quartering? I’m sure we can all judge a 45 degree rotation around the vertical axis, but how about 20-30 degrees? 15 degrees? Unless you can always get a good view of the offside leg stance, or visually line up the neck and spine, I think there is a lot of room for error.

 

[kcm2]

I had something similar happen with the 108 grain ELD-X out of a 6mm Creedmoor. One antelope, center of chest, 100 yards. Dropped, got up, spun around and ran off. Never found her. Later, I shot another one at 275, same bullets from the same box. Center of chest, bullet penetrated a total of less than four inches. I like Hornady ammo and bullets, the CX always works. I won't use the ELD-X on anything after those failures. It was probably a bad lot but my rule is you don't get to let me down during hunting season more than once.

 

[LongWayAround]

There's just no plausible way that the recovered bullet hit a broadside deer at 140yd and was found in the photograph condition while also unable to enter the chest cavity.

A 200lb animal taking a direct hit from a 140gr projectile at 2500fps is not stopping that on it's shoulder.

 

[LongWayAround]

147 ELD-M after going diagonally through a whitetail around 200yd.

 

[sebastian.cassell]

We had 6 or so elk killed a few weeks ago with ELDX ammo out of various calibers- 300 win, 7 prc, 30.06 and 6.5 prc. Most notable to me was a spike elk shot at 275 yds with the 30.06 and eldx combo in the neck. Wish I would have taken pics and documented it but the side of the neck that took the impact was mangled to about 3-4” deep and a 6” radius around the shot site of destroyed meat. Bullet penetration was around 3-4”. Offside neck meat 100% untouched. Very odd results with the lack of penetration but it did drop the bull on the spot. Another cow elk shot at 450 yds with a 300 win/eldx combo had similar damage to OPs blacktail. However there was penetration into the cavity but nothing through the offside ribs. Large 2-3” entrance in the shoulder meat with around a 1” hole carrying into the lungs from mostly bone shards. Found a few small pieces of the copper jacket. Exact same result with the 7prc/eldx combo on a cow elk at 225 yds. Take it for what you will. All animals died relatively quick and were recovered but not really the result we wanted to see as far as bullet performance.

 

[LongWayAround]

90gr eld-x after passing through an elk scapula, in jello. Recovered from a gallon jug of water behind the scapula/jello bag. The bone fragment was also in the jug. 300yd.

 

[Harvey_NW]

@Harvey_NW what happened to the deer standing in front of the deer in the OP that the bullet passed through?

That bullet either hit an object or went through another animal. There is no way that the bullet recovered in the picture first contacted the deer in the OP...it hit something else first.

Nothing, because there wasn't one. There was 1 buck, standing in a cleared state forest main line with no obstructions or vegetation. There's no way a bullet went through another deer and hit the buck center height and on the shoulder crease, where he and a large majority of hunters aim. Let's get back to reality.

 

[TaperPin]

I’ve seen two critters lined up exactly at 150ish yards and with a clear view and 4 easily counted legs, there was no way to know two animals were standing there until one moved. Personally I’ve only seen it once that close with that much detail in all these years of glassing, but had that buck been larger I wouldn’t have hesitated to pull the trigger thinking he was alone. Since then I’ve looked closer for the possibility of a doubled up animal, but it’s normally really obvious. There is probably a point at which our minds fill in parts of the image to match what we think we’re seeing.

I hope it’s made into an audio book, or an outdoor life story - at least a Mad magazine rear cover fold in.

 

[Harvey_NW]

I had something similar happen with the 108 grain ELD-X out of a 6mm Creedmoor. One antelope, center of chest, 100 yards. Dropped, got up, spun around and ran off. Never found her. Later, I shot another one at 275, same bullets from the same box. Center of chest, bullet penetrated a total of less than four inches. I like Hornady ammo and bullets, the CX always works. I won't use the ELD-X on anything after those failures. It was probably a bad lot but my rule is you don't get to let me down during hunting season more than once.

I figured it out, there's gotta be an unknown species of invisible martyr phantom chickens that fly in front of ELD bullets before impacting animals shot at by non staff members.

 

[Jbehredt]

I think there is also substantial room for error when judging an animal’s exact orientation to us. What someone perceived as ‘perfectly broadside’ could have actually been a bit more of a quartering angle than they realized. I have observing this myself in shots on an elk that I perceived as broadside, when in fact upon skinning the bull it was clearly evident that there was a slight quartering away orientation to the first shot wound path, resulting in the 178 ELDX from a .308 ending up primarily in the brisket. Little, if any, of that bullet affected the vitals, and follow-up shots were necessary.

My point is, at what degree of rotation around the vertical axis of an animal are we judging the transition from broadside to quartering? I’m sure we can all judge a 45 degree rotation around the vertical axis, but how about 20-30 degrees? 15 degrees? Unless you can always get a good view of the offside leg stance, or visually line up the neck and spine, I think there is a lot of room for error.

I did it 2 years ago on a muley buck. I would have put money on nearly perfectly broadside at the shot. Bullet went through the right hind, out the front left shoulder and lodged in the left side of his face. Super bummed at the meat loss.

 

[MidGAHunter]

Let's get back to reality.

The reality is that bullet hit something else first before it hit the animal in the picture. Be it another deer or an obstruction...it hit something. That's the reality.

 

[Tmac]

Bullets can do weird things. There are some weird things going on in your pictures. Bullet flaw, hit a small unseen piece of vegetation, no idea. Glad the deer was recovered.

 

[woods89]

Well, this thread has taken some interesting turns, and it makes me wonder if some posters have raging headaches this morning.

All signs to me point to the bullet hitting something before the deer, what that is is certainly a mystery.

 

[Harvey_NW]

The reality is that bullet hit something else first before it hit the animal in the picture. Be it another deer or an obstruction...it hit something. That's the reality.

All signs to me point to the bullet hitting something before the deer, what that is is certainly a mystery.

That's what I told him before I posted this thread, even though he's dead certain there was nothing in the flight path unless it was an anomaly Randy Johnson like situation where he tatered a bird or something.

The fact that it impacted where he was aimed was confusing to me, I would have assumed anything that would make it start to upset would have cause more deflection, but I understand there's some variability in that as well.

 

[LongWayAround]

The fact that it impacted where he was aimed was confusing to me, I would have assumed anything that would make it start to upset would have cause more deflection, but I understand there's some variability in that as well.

I think that's a potential sticking point.

Say the bullet hit a twig, deflected slightly, and impacted the deer.

How confident would you be that it hit exactly at the point of aim?

Given field variables, it seems to me that a bullet could impact within 3-4" of intent and the shooter would still perceive it to be "exactly" where they intended.

I may have missed it, but, what was his shooting position? Offhand, seated/supported/unsupported, etcetera?

I shot a cow elk years ago that I perceived to be quartered towards me. It turned out that she was much more quartered, almost straight on, based on my entry and exit wounds.

 

[woods89]

That's what I told him before I posted this thread, even though he's dead certain there was nothing in the flight path unless it was an anomaly Randy Johnson like situation where he tatered a bird or something.

The fact that it impacted where he was aimed was confusing to me, I would have assumed anything that would make it start to upset would have cause more deflection, but I understand there's some variability in that as well.

Whatever it was, I would think it had to be fairly close to the animal. It's definitely a bit of a mystery, though.

Like others have mentioned, I do at times find that what actually happened and what I thought I saw in the scope are different.

 

[eoperator]

He did, but he wasn’t saying that’s what makes the bullet work. You left out where he said the ELD-X will work down to 1600 FPS. No energy numbers given!

He also defined minimum velocity as 1.5x's caliber expansion diameter, that is much to low for my preference.