100% Carbon fiber stocks: very lightweight and rigid but are they durable?

[ssimo]

Hi everyone. I was looking at a Manners stock which is only available in the "elite hunter" configuration. The shell is made of 100% carbon fiber. My questions are:
1) durability over time in comparison to a regular Manners or another more conventional composite stock? Is a 100% carbon fiber one easier to scratch? Is it kinda brittle? I have also heard that small scratches can create weaknesses that can manifest later on.
2) i assume that a 100% carbon fiber stock breaks/fractures more easily than a more traditional one. I am curious about actual field reports by you guys: is this an issue while hunting? Consider that I don't baby my rifles at all but i don't even treat them as trash.
3) which are pros and cons of 100% carbon fiber stocks in your opinion?

Thanks everyone
Ciao!

 

[justin davis]

I have some carbon fiber barrels. I’d say they are less durable than a steel barrel. You could scratch them and damage the carbon fiber I’m sure. But I don’t go around and beat my gun on things if I can help it. So it’s a non issue for me.

 

[ckleeves]

They are plenty durable. I don’t baby my guns and I have Manners that are 8 years old and perfectly fine. You can scratch them just like any other stock if you drag them thru the rocks?

 

[ssimo]

I have some carbon fiber barrels. I’d say they are less durable than a steel barrel. You could scratch them and damage the carbon fiber I’m sure. But I don’t go around and beat my gun on things if I can help it. So it’s a non issue for me.

This is my concern because a wrapped barrel is one thing, a stock used for hunting also in the mountains with rocky terrain is another thing. I want to understand if, while using a carbon fiber stock, i would have to be more careful than with other more traditional composite stocks while hunting

 

[ssimo]

They are plenty durable. I don’t baby my guns and I have Manners that are 8 years old and perfectly fine. You can scratch them just like any other stock if you drag them thru the rocks?

Thanks. Do you have some pics of the worst scratches you got on yours?
Cause when i scratch a composite stock, it's just a scratch. But with carbon fiber i have heard a scratch can get worse overtime, getting bigger and creating issues

 

[ckleeves]

Man it would have to be a deep gouge to get worse over time I would think. If you’re scratching them deep enough to fracture the carbon that’s outright abuse. I’ll try to get a few pics

 

[JohnJohnson]

Thanks. Do you have some pics of the worst scratches you got on yours?
Cause when i scratch a composite stock, it's just a scratch. But with carbon fiber i have heard a scratch can get worse overtime, getting bigger and creating issues

Carbon fiber is pretty much the standard for top line rifle stocks in hunting, long range shooting, competitions, etc (excluding chassis systems). If you can manage to break a carbon fiber stock I applaud you but I've never heard of anyone with that issue.

 

[Wrench]

I have several....they're as tough as they get.

 

[ssimo]

Man it would have to be a deep gouge to get worse over time I would think. If you’re scratching them deep enough to fracture the carbon that’s outright abuse. I’ll try to get a few pics

I see, so basically you were talking about scratching the paint or the outer layer but not the carbon fibers themselves. I had a kayaking paddle made of CF and i remember i slowly destroyed it ahah
But for now i don't plan to use my rifle for thst purpose.. for now.

Thanks for the pics, you are amazing!

 

[ssimo]

Carbon fiber is pretty much the standard for top line rifle stocks in hunting, long range shooting, competitions, etc (excluding chassis systems). If you can manage to break a carbon fiber stock I applaud you but I've never heard of anyone with that issue.

The weight saving is so massive that it seems too good to be true ahah!
For example, does any military uses CF stocks on precision rifles? They tend to be very hard on gear for obvious reasons

Additionally, i doubt manners would make a fragile stock. I have geard of a mcmillan breaking in half but, as far as i understood, the hunter dropped the whole rifle

 

[JohnJohnson]

The weight saving is so massive that it seems too good to be true ahah!
For example, does any military uses CF stocks on precision rifles? They tend to be very hard on gear for obvious reasons

Additionally, i doubt manners would make a fragile stock. I have geard of a mcmillan breaking in half but, as far as i understood, the hunter dropped the whole rifle

I'm an extremely bad source of info for anything military related but from my recollection, the modernized military sniper systems use chassis. Like the Barrett MRAD rifle for instance. Using the military as a barometer for what to buy has very limited usefulness though. They require entirely different things from gear outside of its functionality and their acquisition cycles/contracts are not a very fast moving process. It used to be that the civilian market followed the military but in recent years it's evened out a lot more with the military evolving after the civilian market in some cases (examples: tripods and rifle systems).

 

[ckleeves]

I sold the worst scratched one I had to a buddy but it’s still in action and getting more scratches every fall. This is a standard matte finish on this one that I still have. You can see the scratches aren’t deep enough to actually get into the fiber.
This one is pretty new I just hunted with it this year. This is high gloss, when it gets bad I’ll just fill the scratches with a clear coat if I feel the need.

 

[justin davis]

Disregard my post. I thought you were asking about carbon barrels. Sorry. Not enough coffee yet this morning

 

[ssimo]

I'm an extremely bad source of info for anything military related but from my recollection, the modernized military sniper systems use chassis. Like the Barrett MRAD rifle for instance. Using the military as a barometer for what to buy has very limited usefulness though. They require entirely different things from gear outside of its functionality and their acquisition cycles/contracts are not a very fast moving process. It used to be that the civilian market followed the military but in recent years it's evened out a lot more with the military evolving after the civilian market in some cases (examples: tripods and rifle systems).

I never used military usage as a barometer for buying my staff, i know the main concern are budget, decent performances AND POLITICS. So no, but in this regard would have been nice to know that because the militaries keep in mind durability, simply because they don't wanna spend money and time for replacing stuff

 

[ckleeves]

The first one has seen a lot of time in the field and it’s treated about like any other normal hunting rifle. It’s strapped to packs, doesn’t get cased in the back seat etc. Normal hunting use. That’s the second barrel on that rifle and the one on it now has about 300 rounds left before it’s done.

Now if you’re intentionally abusing a rifle for street cred like some of the rifles I see on this forum then it’s probably gonna get some gouges in the carbon. Dragging a rifle behind the truck, running over it, throwing off cliffs, letting it ride in the bed of the truck with a high lift jack making love to it on rough roads etc. But normal people don’t really do that.

 

[TaperPin]

Hi everyone. I was looking at a Manners stock which is only available in the "elite hunter" configuration. The shell is made of 100% carbon fiber. My questions are:
1) durability over time in comparison to a regular Manners or another more conventional composite stock? Is a 100% carbon fiber one easier to scratch? Is it kinda brittle? I have also heard that small scratches can create weaknesses that can manifest later on.
2) i assume that a 100% carbon fiber stock breaks/fractures more easily than a more traditional one. I am curious about actual field reports by you guys: is this an issue while hunting? Consider that I don't baby my rifles at all but i don't even treat them as trash.
3) which are pros and cons of 100% carbon fiber stocks in your opinion?

Thanks everyone
Ciao!

The carbon fiber fabric is very tough - nothing short of standing on the rifle, or having a horse squish it between a tree will have any effect.

The only downside in the past was cost.

Many stocks would be quite light if the only weight was the outer carbon fiber skin, but as much if not more weight is added in the filler in the action and forend so there is something to bed the action to and so it doesn’t sound and feel hollow. Butt end of the stock is usually filled with a lighter density material, but it still adds considerable weight. Again, cost is a major factor and cheaper/heavier fills are the norm, and lighter comes at a premium.

 

[ssimo]

View attachment 631486
I sold the worst scratched one I had to a buddy but it’s still in action and getting more scratches every fall. This is a standard matte finish on this one that I still have. You can see the scratches aren’t deep enough to actually get into the fiber. View attachment 631487
This one is pretty new I just hunted with it this year. This is high gloss, when it gets bad I’ll just fill the scratches with a clear coat if I feel the need.

I would leave the scratches for sure, they give the rifle some charachter. Thanks for the pics, these are just scratches in the paint it seems. If this is what i can expect with normal use it's perfectly fine

 

[ssimo]

The carbon fiber fabric is very tough - nothing short of standing on the rifle, or having a horse squish it between a tree will have any effect.

The only downside in the past was cost.

Many stocks would be quite light if the only weight was the outer carbon fiber skin, but as much if not more weight is added in the filler in the action and forend so there is something to bed the action to and so it doesn’t sound and feel hollow. Butt end of the stock is usually filled with a lighter density material, but it still adds considerable weight. Again, cost is a major factor and cheaper/heavier fills are the norm, and lighter comes at a premium.

I think another reason to have filler is galvanic corrosion: better not to make CF contact aluminum (for example ised for the minichassis of the stock i am thinking to buy)

 

[ssimo]

I noticed the thread was moved, sorry if i put it in the wrong section in the first place!

 

[Article 4]

Hi everyone. I was looking at a Manners stock which is only available in the "elite hunter" configuration. The shell is made of 100% carbon fiber. My questions are:
1) durability over time in comparison to a regular Manners or another more conventional composite stock? Is a 100% carbon fiber one easier to scratch? Is it kinda brittle? I have also heard that small scratches can create weaknesses that can manifest later on.
2) i assume that a 100% carbon fiber stock breaks/fractures more easily than a more traditional one. I am curious about actual field reports by you guys: is this an issue while hunting? Consider that I don't baby my rifles at all but i don't even treat them as trash.
3) which are pros and cons of 100% carbon fiber stocks in your opinion?

Thanks everyone
Ciao!

I have experience in the development and building of Carbon Barrels and Carbon stocks with a couple of very well known companies.

PRO: Carbon is ounce for ounce 3 to 4 times stronger than steel - the ultimate tensile strength of steel ranges from 400 to 690 MPa, while the ultimate strength of carbon fiber reinforced polymer composites ranges from 1,200 to 2,410 MPa. It is generally 15-20 times stronger than fiberglass. Don't even ask how much stronger it is than any wood or other stock product, except maybe titanium.

PRO: Carbon can be stronger than Titanium or other matrix ounce for ounce but it would take some work to get it there. But then costs go astronomically higher.

PRO: I helped a company build a prototype Carbon Stock that was fairly basic through the build. We sourced 9k carbon, which is better than most other companies use with a strength of 7,523 ft/lbs, 396 g/m2. and built a standard sporter stock.

PRO: We slammed it on the ground, smashed it with a hammer, and then ran over it with a F250 in the parking lot. Wish I had photos of the faces of the folks there, but it took all the damage up to the point of being run over. The truck cracked it badly but did not crush or break it completely.

CON: Carbon can be scratched, it can be nicked and damaged, if fully cracked or broken, it can be repaired by someone who knows what they are doing but I would not recommend it.

Cared for Carbon, like many compounds is pretty durable long term. I personally have very well used carbon stocks that I have had for 16 to 17 years with a few nicks, scrapes, and hairline cracks that I repaired and are still running strong.

In scientific terms, Carbon is way F-ing strong and there is not better ounce per ounce product to build a stock out of.