Youngwild TV Show and a Stone Sheep Hunt

[MattB]

I agree its not easy, no one said that. And even if you were a billionaire, a feat like the Slam would take an extraordinary level of commitment and skill. I would love to hear your details, thoughts and/or numbers on that. PM me if that's better. I will read up on Mr. Ensign but my first thought is he started his Slam over 30yrs. A time when a hunter could roll into a lot of mountain ranges for almost nothing and take a bunch of different animals that were very plentiful. A time when "mandatory guide requirement" was not a term. The hunting world has drastically changed since then.

Your first thought is not correct. Jake got his sheep slam in one year (4 consecutive hunts) and it was fairly recent, 2008 or so. That was toward the end of his super slam, but he pretty much did 5-6 hunts each year and did not have to repeat many - so call it 6-8 years start to finish.

I have three friends who are serious archers that have done 8 combined Dall bow hunts in AK and BC and have one ram between them. Every guide I talked to in AK(dozens) told me if u cant afford to do 2-3 hunts, just come with the rifle. Stories Tom Miranda relays about his quest for the Slam would correlate with these numbers.

Having gone down that path, being 1 for 8 on dalls suggests your friends either went with the wrong outfitters, had extraordinarily bad luck, or simply are not very skilled bowhunters - however serious they may be. The better outfitters in the NWT run ~85% success with bowhunters, and the outfitter I killed my ram with, Gana River Outfitters, is 5 for 5 over the past 2 years with bowhunters. And I think it took Tom 2 days to kill his dall at South Nahanni.

For a reference, it took Tom Miranda, a pretty awesome bowhunter, 54 hunts to complete his Slam.

Tom is a great guy and his slam is a really tremendous accomplishment, but truthfully I do not think he is much better than average as a bowhunter. I do not say that to disparage, but just watching what little I have of his shows reflects rookie mistakes, such as waiting until animals come out from behind cover to draw his bow and getting behind rather than in front of cover. Skilled bowhunters simply don't make those sorts of mistakes. I applaud him for the dedication it took to go on those 54 hunt to complete his slam and I do not say this to diminish his achievement, but the salient point here is I do not think that his experience should be considered representative.

And unless he spent on average $55,000 hunt, you previous suggestion that it would take $3MM (a million plus a couple more million) to get a super slam is way off base. A skilled bowhunter could likely get it done for $750,000 plus or minus, and I would guesstimate it would take ~1.2-1.3 hunters per species to get it done.

 

[Coveyleader]

There is no doubt if you can get by on the sheep and bear hunts with one hunt each, you are way ahead on the financial curve. Make no mistake about it, the sheep hunts are very costly and the desert alone could run you 100k if you don't get it done in one shot. I remember speaking to my taxidermist about Rick Duggan here in Colorado who killed hunted with his recurve for the slam. He went on 3-5 hunts or more just for the desert! To do it with Archery gear will surely add to the cost.



Make no mistake, you need to have you priorities set to take the NA Slam and finances are a big factor in achieving those dreams.

 

[PA 5-0]

Your first thought is not correct. Jake got his sheep slam in one year (4 consecutive hunts) and it was fairly recent, 2008 or so. That was toward the end of his super slam, but he pretty much did 5-6 hunts each year and did not have to repeat many - so call it 6-8 years start to finish.

Having gone down that path, being 1 for 8 on dalls suggests your friends either went with the wrong outfitters, had extraordinarily bad luck, or simply are not very skilled bowhunters - however serious they may be. The better outfitters in the NWT run ~85% success with bowhunters, and the outfitter I killed my ram with, Gana River Outfitters, is 5 for 5 over the past 2 years with bowhunters. And I think it took Tom 2 days to kill his dall at South Nahanni.

Tom is a great guy and his slam is a really tremendous accomplishment, but truthfully I do not think he is much better than average as a bowhunter. I do not say that to disparage, but just watching what little I have of his shows reflects rookie mistakes, such as waiting until animals come out from behind cover to draw his bow and getting behind rather than in front of cover. Skilled bowhunters simply don't make those sorts of mistakes. I applaud him for the dedication it took to go on those 54 hunt to complete his slam and I do not say this to diminish his achievement, but the salient point here is I do not think that his experience should be considered representative.

And unless he spent on average $55,000 hunt, you previous suggestion that it would take $3MM (a million plus a couple more million) to get a super slam is way off base. A skilled bowhunter could likely get it done for $750,000 plus or minus, and I would guesstimate it would take ~1.2-1.3 hunters per species to get it done.

Matt, maybe you are talking about a different Jake than I am. I read a headline on a Bowsite story that still clearly states "his 30yr quest". Lists his Rocky Mntn Elk as taken in 1991. Jake states on a thread that it was a 20yr quest. So its either 20 or 30yrs, not 6-8. And the Jake I am talking about required MANY repeat hunts.

Polar bear 2, Can Barren Bou 3, Mntn Bou 2, Can Moose 3, AK Brown Bear 5, AK moose 2. Maybe we are talking about different guys.

I am not a registered historian on Super Slams, but to your salient point of Mr. Miranda's experience being not representitive, lets do some math. Adding up Mr. Ensign's hunts, I get a total of 44 hunts. Mr. Miranda took 54. Thats failry close. And now consider that Tom VIDEOED EVERY KILL. Don't know if you ever tried videoing a bowhunt, but I did for years on many species. And I can tell you first hand, I would have a lot more P&Ys hanging in my den if I didnt have a camera guy with me. And for you to suggest that Tom Miranda is just an average bowhunter, makes me question your experience behind a bow.

And I didnt say it would take 3mil. I eluded to the fact that a hunter may need a couple million to live off of while he was spending his first million on the Super Slam. A mil would be around $20k a hunt average.

Ur figure of $750k may be doable if one could get lucky on a couple of the more difficult species on the first hunt.

Maybe we can just agree that a dude has to be pretty freakin loaded to pull off a Super Slam.

Appreciate your thoughts,
Dan

 

[MattB]

Matt, maybe you are talking about a different Jake than I am. I read a headline on a Bowsite story that still clearly states "his 30yr quest". Lists his Rocky Mntn Elk as taken in 1991. Jake states on a thread that it was a 20yr quest. So its either 20 or 30yrs, not 6-8. And the Jake I am talking about required MANY repeat hunts.

Same Jake, but if you look at the dates you will get a more clear picture of the point I illustrated. There is the "working Jake" and the "retired and focused on the slam Jake". He killed 4 P&Y animals over a span of 12 years (1991, 1993, 1995, 1997), one each in 2003-2006, and then killed the remaining 21 animals in 5 years. If he had retired, started his effort, and kept the pace he did when he was focused on the accomplishment, he was on pace to get the slam in less than 7 years - right in line with my estimated range.

I am not a registered historian on Super Slams, but to your salient point of Mr. Miranda's experience being not representitive, lets do some math. Adding up Mr. Ensign's hunts, I get a total of 44 hunts. Mr. Miranda took 54. Thats failry close. And now consider that Tom VIDEOED EVERY KILL. Don't know if you ever tried videoing a bowhunt, but I did for years on many species. And I can tell you first hand, I would have a lot more P&Ys hanging in my den if I didnt have a camera guy with me. And for you to suggest that Tom Miranda is just an average bowhunter, makes me question your experience behind a bow.

I have shot a fair bit of stuff on camera, so I have a sense of how it works and the complications that can result. Based on my experience, the hunting ability of the cameraman is far more important than that of the shooter, and if you have a cameraman who is a good hunter and who anticipates the shot and moves into the correct position to capture it, it isn't that much of an impediment.

That said, I am not sure how having a camera man or not would cause a guy to wait until after an animal walks out from behind cover to draw or would cause a guy to get behind rather than in front of cover?

And I didnt say it would take 3mil. I eluded to the fact that a hunter may need a couple million to live off of while he was spending his first million on the Super Slam. A mil would be around $20k a hunt average.

Ur figure of $750k may be doable if one could get lucky on a couple of the more difficult species on the first hunt.

Maybe we can just agree that a dude has to be pretty freakin loaded to pull off a Super Slam.

Jake did it for $400K, which illustrated that even my $750K guesstimate was almost 2x too high. $400K is a considerable sum, but it is a far cry from $2MM or even $1MM to which you alluded.

You and I will obviously have differing perspectives on this subject, but it seems yours may be based on some anecdotal data points that are outliers ($2MM slam estimate, 1 in 8 dall sheep success being average for dedicated bowhunters), and my purpose was to point that out for the benefit of the forum.

 

[Craig Van Arsdale]

If you were an AK resident I bet you could knock the price down to around 250K. Still speedy but far within a lot of average joes income levels over a span of 20-30 years.

 

[bigeasygator]

For anyone that wants to read up on Jake's slam, here's the write-up. http://www.bowsite.com/BOWSITE/features/articles/jakes29/ He did it in 44 hunts and it cost him less than $500K. I'm sure there's some inflation from the prices he quoted but I wouldn't expect too much. I've been pretty fanatical about the Slam since I first read about Chuck Adams doing it back in the 90s. I realized I'm in a place to start pursuing it and have become more dedicated to planning hunts that will let me complete the Slam.

There are a ton of barriers to completing the Slam, and some of those barriers are harder to overcome for some people than others. Some folks don't have the money or vacation to do it. Some folks have all the time and the money in the world but don't have the physical ability or mental fortitude to get it done. It's not for the faint of heart. Some of those hunts aren't as simple as drawing a tag and scouting an area (see musk-ox, polar bear, any of the sheep, etc).

Point is, no matter how you slice it, the accomplishment is incredible. Having money doesn't guarantee anything. Unfortunately, having a strong desire and the right attitude about it doesn't get it done either. It takes a lot of things to come together and that's what makes it the remarkable achievement it is. I haven't seen this show but sounds like the kid has all the pieces in place and I wish him the best of luck!

 

[PA 5-0]

For anyone that wants to read up on Jake's slam, here's the write-up. http://www.bowsite.com/BOWSITE/features/articles/jakes29/ He did it in 44 hunts and it cost him less than $500K. I'm sure there's some inflation from the prices he quoted but I wouldn't expect too much. I've been pretty fanatical about the Slam since I first read about Chuck Adams doing it back in the 90s. I realized I'm in a place to start pursuing it and have become more dedicated to planning hunts that will let me complete the Slam.

There are a ton of barriers to completing the Slam, and some of those barriers are harder to overcome for some people than others. Some folks don't have the money or vacation to do it. Some folks have all the time and the money in the world but don't have the physical ability or mental fortitude to get it done. It's not for the faint of heart. Some of those hunts aren't as simple as drawing a tag and scouting an area (see musk-ox, polar bear, any of the sheep, etc).

Point is, no matter how you slice it, the accomplishment is incredible. Having money doesn't guarantee anything. Unfortunately, having a strong desire and the right attitude about it doesn't get it done either. It takes a lot of things to come together and that's what makes it the remarkable achievement it is. I haven't seen this show but sounds like the kid has all the pieces in place and I wish him the best of luck!

Well said.

 

[rodney482]

I enjoyed the show.

Hard for me not to enjoy that type of show.

My daughters first kills meant more to me than all of mine combined.

 

[4IDARCHER]

Read this thread and was going to leave it alone for I am far more in the camp of PA 5-0 then others. I too believe that you better have million(s) in the bank for the quest of the Super Slam in today’s world of 2014. I think many of you are under estimating the TRUE costs of the superslam even without a camera. For instance. For those of you saying it would take sub 500,000 how many animals and out of state hunts do you think you could go on in one year? If the answer is several how do you suppose you have the coin to take several weeks off each year and still have all the money to pay bills? We are not talking going to neighboring states either. Estimate the cost of flying to 4 far off states and spending 4 weeks off of work. How much would you have to have saved up to cover all the bills you just took off work for?

If you are planning on doing most of it DIY how many trips do you plan on taking? The cost and time off work is the same. Many of you state that there are many millionaires out there but few superslamers. I would argue this is because many have no desire to hunt all 29 species, instead focusing on their chosen few and animals of different countries. I think that we all have seen guys that were not exactly in marathon shape yet taken almost any species of big game. I believe this is due to excellent guides and their abilities. I also think those guides would charge more then most, but again money makes it possible.

I think it is awesome that this kid's dad wants to make his son's dream come true and if money was no object in the world and my child wanted to share my passion it would be hard for me to not pay whatever was needed to complete his dream. I guess I am lucky in the fact that this will never be an issue for me. I do think though that having no true idea what a quest like this included, beyond the desire and skill needed, somehow does take away from the quest. What I mean is this. I have no doubt that this quest was thought up at age 11 and really started at early 12 if it is now just coming on and the kid is still 12. Does any 11 year old know what kind of cash 30-40k is? Can he/she possibly understand that amount is equal to many, many peoples yearly pay check? That the majority of people all across the United States work for an entire year for close to the same amount that was just paid for a week or ten days of hunting? I think part of what makes the superslam so special is all the hard work needed in everyday life; i.e. career, to make that goal possible. To never even have a job and complete that?

Like PA 5-0 stated this isn't jealousy, I wish the kid and anyone best of luck on this quest, but just think that anyone who doesn't think money plays the largest role in the quest to get the Superslam in the shortest amount of time (remember this show is based on the premise he will be the youngest to complete the slam, meaning time is important) has blinders on.

 

[shane auman]

I am seeing a lot of comments regarding the cost of the slam. Anyone that is willing to start and complete SuperSlam, GrandSlam, or any other type of slam is not overly concerned with the costs. They take it as part of the challenge. I think it is great that his father is able and wants to provide the platform for his son to complete the SuperSlam. Has anyone ever spoke with or been around Lincoln? I have and personal friends that have met him also. One thing that we came to realize very quick is that he is very serious about his hunting, and his knowledge of animals is impressive. I will venture to say that his knowledge of animals will far exceed most adults that consider themselves as knowledgeable hunters. He may be a bit groomed for his T.V. interviews, but of the T.V. hunters, who's not? After the rambling point is just don't look at the fact his parents have money, and he is a twelve year old kid. He is a lot more than that and is unseen on the T.V. show.

 

[Nick Muche]

I guess what I love about the folks saying how much it will cost, all the speculation about the cost and everything else involved is this.... None of you have actually done it and the folks that HAVE done it, already did it... Costs change and with the demand for certain species, they will continue to change. Not everyone will be able to do the slam, far from it... Furthermore, those that do decide to do it, will not do it for the same price as the person next to them trying. Every situation is going to be different.

Bottom line, who really cares? The young man on this show is living a dream that most of us would love to have a chance at.

Jealousy is an ugly thing.

Lighten up fellas, winter is almost over.

 

[ChadH]

I guess what I love about the folks saying how much it will cost, all the speculation about the cost and everything else involved is this.... None of you have actually done it and the folks that HAVE done it, already did it... Costs change and with the demand for certain species, they will continue to change. Not everyone will be able to do the slam, far from it... Furthermore, those that do decide to do it, will not do it for the same price as the person next to them trying. Every situation is going to be different.

Bottom line, who really cares? The young man on this show is living a dream that most of us would love to have a chance at.

Jealousy is an ugly thing.

Lighten up fellas, winter is almost over.

Well said Nick. I don't think I could ever afford it, or justify the cost if I could, but I am sure thrilled for this young man and his father, and enjoy being, vicariously, a part of their journey. Now I just hope they continue to do everything on the up and up, so their accomplishment is something everyone can be proud of. Jealousy is indeed an ugly thing, but so is competition and the pressure of notoriety/endorsements (TV). Personally, I am just praying for the kid and his family, that they keep their heads screwed on straight through it all… and enjoying their ride.
Chad

 

[Matt W.]

Well said Nick. I don't think I could ever afford it, or justify the cost if I could, but I am sure thrilled for this young man and his father, and enjoy being, vicariously, a part of their journey. Now I just hope they continue to do everything on the up and up, so their accomplishment is something everyone can be proud of. Jealousy is indeed an ugly thing, but so is competition and the pressure of notoriety/endorsements (TV). Personally, I am just praying for the kid and his family, that they keep their heads screwed on straight through it all… and enjoying their ride.
Chad

Spot on Chad.. Well said..

 

[Tanner]

As a 19 year old broke ass that pays his way, I can tell you I wouldn't mind having a pops that paid for me to complete a Super Slam, not one little bit

I'm glad there are still folks in this country that can do/fund such adventures. Kudos to the kid for going it with a bow... that will be an incredible accomplishment when he reaches his goal.

Tanner