Wyoming proposal to slash Non-resident hunters

[roadrunner]

While capitalism and a free market economy are good things, for the individual supplier and demander, it is often confused with those demanding are willing to pay any price to the ones supplying at any price.

There are going to be hundreds (if not thousands) forced to sit on the sidelines while they watch other players compete more often in the game they once played. So, no, the demanders are not willing to pay any price. A few are not all.

It's a shame that all states are moving in this direction. While most support a 90/10 or an 85/15 split, the same most are against high prices.

UT did it last year and as a result, I will not apply for anything again with antlers or horns until (if ever) I become a resident of UT...

 

[lif]

I don’t have a big issue with protecting tags for residents. But I do have a big issue with the constant price jumps in states. I don’t care what anyone says, hunting is getting quickly shifted towards the rich. These price jumps are based on having enough hunters who are still willing to pay the prices they give us, not being fair to the hunters as a whole. And I’m tired of the excuse of “they’re just catching up to the other states pricing” or “the tags have been undervalued for too long”. Just because one state is gauging hunters doesn’t justify all states gauging hunters. In my humble opinion.

Treating hunting tags like a prospering business , rather than a resource for the public, is a depressing movement to me.

 

[Shooter264]

Your not even close look at Colorado's tag allocations

Look at the draw odds for the best elk area in Colorado for a Non resident and then compare them to non resident Wyoming. It would take a non resident 2x as long to draw Colorado as it would Wyoming. What other states give non residents 25% of the sheep, moose tags to non residents? How many other states out there have hunting areas that are not even open for non residents to apply? Name one area in Wyoming that as a non resident you can’t throw your name in the hat. Wyoming has been so liberal w tag allocations in the past that they have split the sheep tags 50/50 with non residents in certain areas giving the residents a chance to hunt one year and then gave the tags to non residents the next year.

 

[idelkslayer]

I have always been baffled by the high percentage of tags that Wyoming gives to NR, not that I was going to complain or raise the alarm. Especially the Bighorn Sheep, Moose and Bison tags.

What is the reason for this change? Are game populations declining or are resident hunter numbers going up?

 

[squirrel]

twould appear them that writes the check and them that cashes the check see it differently, who knew?

 

[BuzzH]

I don’t have a big issue with protecting tags for residents. But I do have a big issue with the constant price jumps in states. I don’t care what anyone says, hunting is getting quickly shifted towards the rich. These price jumps are based on having enough hunters who are still willing to pay the prices they give us, not being fair to the hunters as a whole. And I’m tired of the excuse of “they’re just catching up to the other states pricing” or “the tags have been undervalued for too long”. Just because one state is gauging hunters doesn’t justify all states gauging hunters. In my humble opinion.

Treating hunting tags like a prospering business , rather than a resource for the public, is a depressing movement to me.

NR hunting is not becoming a rich mans sport...its stayed relatively static in price for the 42 years I've been hunting...give or take.

What's going on right now is johnnie come lately type NR hunters just have short memories or weren't hunting out of state 3-4 decades ago.

Just for the hell of it, I went and looked up some statistics from Montana as an example of what a NR deer/elk combo was selling for in the year I started hunting, 1979.

NR cost was $226 dollars, average United State househould median income in 1979 was $16,530. So $226/$16530 would equal around 1.4% of the mean income for a NR MT combo.

Median average household income in 2020, is $68,703 current price for a MT NR deer/elk combo is $1052...so $1052/$68,703 would equal about 1.5% of the mean income for a NR MT combo license.

Has it went up in price? Yes, .014 to .015 of mean annual income or an increase of .001 or 1/10th of 1 percent of mean annual income since 1979.

The only way you can logically say its "becoming a rich man's sport" is if you agree that it has been for over 4 decades...otherwise its about the same its always been price wise.

 

[BuzzH]

I have always been baffled by the high percentage of tags that Wyoming gives to NR, not that I was going to complain or raise the alarm. Especially the Bighorn Sheep, Moose and Bison tags.

What is the reason for this change? Are game populations declining or are resident hunter numbers going up?

Both.

 

[Bubblehide]

Okay Wyoming NR hunters, watch the time it takes you to draw double, despite a fair amount of NR hunters bailing on the state.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Wyoming has become the high class hooker. Very selective, giving priority to the locals. And then on the other side of the street you have Colorado. Missing a couple teeth, smells like meth, and taken more rides than the scooters in downtown Denver. Everybody has had a ride and they’ll keep on taking them if you flash that green. Come any and come all!!!!

 

[dreamingbig]

Nonresident elk to $1100 across the board and antelope to $600.

Hopefully the residents also know that by decreasing from 16% to 10% it will reduce their odds in every other western state but maybe they don’t care.

This sucks. That is about as technical as I can be.


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[dreamingbig]

Doesn't to me...sounds about like what I pay to hunt UT, AZ, NV.

Wyoming has been undervalued for a long time.

The Wyoming residents are going to be classic on this one!

It will be slightly more sophisticated than “You mad bro?”

But hey they don’t want to hunt your state either.


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[dreamingbig]

No you wont...there will be 6% less Residents that drew LQ tags hunting general areas.

Plus, we can hunt designated wilderness where NR's cant.

Speaking of the wilderness. The reason a lot of folks haven’t been more critics of this was the 16% allocation. Going to 10%...

Game on.


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[BuzzH]

The Wyoming residents are going to be classic on this one!

It will be slightly more sophisticated than “You mad bro?”

But hey they don’t want to hunt your state either.


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I hear the hunting in Washington is superb...

 

[BuzzH]

Speaking of the wilderness. The reason a lot of folks haven’t been more critics of this was the 16% allocation. Going to 10%...

Game on.


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Get it done...I won't stand in your way.

 

[Fatcamp]

Fewer tags, higher prices, outfitter welfare. The tags will always sell but more and more these western state big game seasons will look like South Dakota when pheasant season comes around. Wealthy people flying in with their rifles to be chauffeured around and shown game during the day with booze and hookers at night.

Meh, I'll find a way to hunt no matter what. Lots of things to hunt, and not all have fur.

 

[stevevan]

Fewer tags, higher prices, outfitter welfare. The tags will always sell but more and more these western state big game seasons will look like South Dakota when pheasant season comes around. Wealthy people flying in with their rifles to be chauffeured around and shown game during the day with booze and hookers at night.

Meh, I'll find a way to hunt no matter what. Lots of things to hunt, and not all have fur.

It ain't going to happen. After being a resident in Wyoming in the Outfitter rich area around Jackson I can assure you the outfitters will put on a huge fight if there is any movement to reduce the licenses for NR. That's their market and they are well represented in State politics. Non resident hunting is a big boost to Wyomings economy and money talks. After all it was the outfitters who campaigned for the "special draw" and they got it. They'll fight tooth and nail to protect their market. Higher lic cost yes, reduced non-resident hunters, never.

 

[Steve O]

I’m feeling a little nauseous. All I want to do is hunt Bighorn sheep again (hunted CO with my recurve in 2007) and have been investing in the WY draw and applying for 22 years to do that. Wyoming was my last hope at not having.1% chance of drawing.

 

[Fatcamp]

It ain't going to happen. After being a resident in Wyoming in the Outfitter rich area around Jackson I can assure you the outfitters will put on a huge fight if there is any movement to reduce the licenses for NR. That's their market and they are well represented in State politics. Non resident hunting is a big boost to Wyomings economy and money talks. After all it was the outfitters who campaigned for the "special draw" and they got it. They'll fight tooth and nail to protect their market. Higher lic cost yes, reduced non-resident hunters, never.

So are they going to fight this proposal?

 

[lif]

NR hunting is not becoming a rich mans sport...its stayed relatively static in price for the 42 years I've been hunting...give or take.

What's going on right now is johnnie come lately type NR hunters just have short memories or weren't hunting out of state 3-4 decades ago.

Just for the hell of it, I went and looked up some statistics from Montana as an example of what a NR deer/elk combo was selling for in the year I started hunting, 1979.

NR cost was $226 dollars, average United State househould median income in 1979 was $16,530. So $226/$16530 would equal around 1.4% of the mean income for a NR MT combo.

Median average household income in 2020, is $68,703 current price for a MT NR deer/elk combo is $1052...so $1052/$68,703 would equal about 1.5% of the mean income for a NR MT combo license.

Has it went up in price? Yes, .014 to .015 of mean annual income or an increase of .001 or 1/10th of 1 percent of mean annual income since 1979.

The only way you can logically say its "becoming a rich man's sport" is if you agree that it has been for over 4 decades...otherwise its about the same its always been price wise.

In your cost analysis did you include the fact that in many states you now have to buy preference points for several years to even draw a tag? I’m quite certain that wasn’t around 40 years ago. How about buying a license Every year so that you can buy points in those states? How about the allocation of tags to landowners that didn’t exist in all the western states 40 years ago? The bottom line is hunting has turned into a full fledge business which in laments terms means Supply and Demand. As long as there are enough people who can afford the available tags they will keep raising prices. Just an anecdotal observation here but I don’t think there would be that many of us bitching about increases if we could all afford it. And I haven’t hunted as a non resident for 40 years like you but I have been doing it for 25 years. And it has definitely gotten more expensive for us despite the inflation analogy you threw out there.

 

[BuzzH]

In your cost analysis did you include the fact that in many states you now have to buy preference points for several years to even draw a tag? I’m quite certain that wasn’t around 40 years ago. How about buying a license Every year so that you can buy points in those states? How about the allocation of tags to landowners that didn’t exist in all the western states 40 years ago? The bottom line is hunting has turned into a full fledge business which in laments terms means Supply and Demand. As long as there are enough people who can afford the available tags they will keep raising prices. Just an anecdotal observation here but I don’t think there would be that many of us bitching about increases if we could all afford it. And I haven’t hunted as a non resident for 40 years like you but I have been doing it for 25 years. And it has definitely gotten more expensive for us despite the inflation analogy you threw out there.

I believe it takes one preference point to draw a MT Elk/Deer combo license, not sure what the fee is for that (I buy a NR deer combo OTC since I'm a NR Native) The number of NR deer/elk combo licenses was the same in 1979 as it is now, 17,000.

Outside of maybe a single point purchase, the cost analysis between 1979 and 2020 are essentially the same. Also fair to note the chances of drawing a deer/elk combo in Montana is pretty good without even a single point, IIRC, 25% of the 17k are in a random draw.