Wyoming proposal to slash Non-resident hunters

[Trial153]

Emailing a senator after he voted the way you wanted absolutely does not make sense. Hopefully you piss him off though, cause it seemed like he cared about NR.

Maybe I told him how me and my buddy spent about 15k already THIS year hunting in WY, and he woke up and seen a bigger picture. That might be good idea for you too.....

 

[Ralphie]

Those no votes pawned it off to a task force as the easy way out. A task force that lots of rokslide was complaining was made up of few who would stick up for the diy hunter.

When will the contact info for legislators in other states be published so we can start asking for this great Wyoming tag allocation model, that you are all so happy about, be implemented in other places.

 

[Trial153]

If WY was smart they would be marketing THEIR allotments and system as model to move toward rather then trying to move themselves towards the mediocrity that plagues other states and their systems. Raise prices, sure but with the plan in mind that growing and thriving wildlife populations will create more opportunities for residents and non residents a like.
Its ass backward too proclaim your better then other states then move in their direction policy wise.

 

[Buglebrush]

Every year we hurtle closer and closer to turning hunting into a rich man only sport. Not going to be many options left for the next generation. Just wait until the wolves decimate Colorado, and all those non-resident hunters are looking elsewhere for a western hunt. In 20 years it's going to be impossible to do a DIY Public Land Western Elk Hunt if you're not a resident. It saddens me to see it going this way!

 

[Gobbler36]

If WY was smart they would be marketing THEIR allotments and system as model to move toward rather then trying to move themselves towards the mediocrity that plagues other states and their systems. Raise prices, sure but with the plan in mind that growing and thriving wildlife populations will create more opportunities for residents and non residents a like.
Its ass backward too proclaim your better then other states then move in their direction policy wise.

What growing and thriving wildlife populations do you speak of?
everywhere around the west we are losing habitat to make way for people fleeing cities and turning critical winter range into subdivisions. mule deer have been on a steady decline as well as antelope in some parts. if there is any bright spot it’d be elk which is down significantly since reintroduction Of wolves

 

[Trial153]

What growing and thriving wildlife populations do you speak of?
everywhere around the west we are losing habitat to make way for people fleeing cities and turning critical winter range into subdivisions. mule deer have been on a steady decline as well as antelope in some parts. if there is any bright spot it’d be elk which is down significantly since reintroduction Of wolves

If growing and thriving populations is the goal to work towards then what is. WY is as good as it get in the west when you consider all the game species a hole.
They should look to build on what they do right rather take a step backwards. And this would be a step backward.

 

[Squincher]

Aside from the problems caused for NR by changing laws and regulations, a lot of the posts in this thread by residents have highlighted something I've been noticing for about the last 15 or so years. If you go far enough west to get into a state with a mountain in it, it is just varying shades of LA and Seattle anymore. By and large, the people out there are just jerks. To the point it is almost startling to interact with a friendly person. And it doesn't matter if you are hunting, going to a shoot, or just riding around on a motorcycle. Spend $2.5k to be around them for a week and contribute to their economy? Yeah, no. There are plenty of species to hunt in Canada, Mexico, S. America, and Africa, where people are friendly and glad you are there.

 

[BuzzH]

It will probably be a while before he gets over this. Probably wont hear from again til he has some NR bad news to share with all of us.

Dude...you do not understand how these issues work at all. I've been in this advocacy game for a long, long time.

This is just a few years into this current issue, barely enough time to get warmed up and the word out to Resident hunters. A couple years ago if someone said, "90-10" nobody even knew what you were talking about. Today, its pretty rare when a Resident hunter doesn't know what you're talking about immediately.

Its apparent by your lack of knowledge of just about everything hunting, in particular about issues like these, that you're a sprinter. Sprinters DO NOT win marathons.

The end result is going to be 90-10, it will pass and that was pretty apparent at today's TRW committee hearing. I can tell you that 2 of the 5 on the committee have already stated their intention to pass it through committee when its brought up again. In the meantime, there is going to be tremendous pressure put on the entire State Legislature by us Residents, their constituents....you know the people that vote for them...or not.

I view this like I do killing elk...you don't kill 77 elk in your life by giving up the first day. You kill them by waking up day after day, just as excited on day 23 as you were on day 1...and never losing sight of your goal and why you're there.

Today was a good day....a great day actually.

 

[BuzzH]

@Carlin59 Senator Landen's no vote was chicken chit. He saw a way out by giving it to the new wildlife task force to study. There was plenty of support by WY residents to have the bill debated on the senate floor. However, I can see his frustration when he has to go through 600 to 700 emails from out of state people that have no say in the way Wyoming handles our business. He could have spent time reading emails from WY outfitters & guides, WY hotel owners, and resident hunters. You know, the people he reps.

Relax...Landen will not be a no vote again.

The Natrona County guys are fixin' to make sure of that...and trust me, they will.

Lots of very dedicated Resident hunters from up that way, and they're all in for 90-10.

 

[Carlin59]

What growing and thriving wildlife populations do you speak of?
everywhere around the west we are losing habitat to make way for people fleeing cities and turning critical winter range into subdivisions. mule deer have been on a steady decline as well as antelope in some parts. if there is any bright spot it’d be elk which is down significantly since reintroduction Of wolves

Totally agree regarding the threat of lost winter range having a direct impact on all ungulates on the landscape. Keeping outfitter lease and private trespass fee rates strong helps keep those ranches from turning into ranchettes/subdivisions. Not saying it’s a perfect solution, but given current economics, I think it’s hard to argue reducing WY NR LE allocation won’t reduce the value of lease and trespass rates that help stave off subdivision. My $.02.

 

[realunlucky]

No doubt you've tipped your hand to the opposition and they'll definitely be more prepared next time. Never forgot they'll take the money over whiny voters everyday of the week.

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[BuzzH]

No doubt you've tipped your hand to the opposition and they'll definitely be more prepared next time. Never forgot they'll take the money over whiny voters everyday of the week.

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Nahhh, ego trumps money...they value their own positions and "power".

This will be an issue that gets a change in legislators for opposing constituents.

 

[dreamingWest]

This is the thread I meant to post this on:

I was having a conversation with my brother today and he was asking questions I had trouble answering. I’ve always accepted the fact that as a non-resident I have access permission to public land but I have no guaranteed rights to hunt game on those lands because wildlife is managed by the state.

I’ve always accepted this fact and not really had a problem with it. I try to draw tags in the non-resident pool and feel fortunate to have this opportunity. But aren’t the folks that manage said wildlife heavily subsidized by federal taxes such as Pittman-Robertson? If most (or a large portion) of this cost of management is indeed coming from federal money and non-resident money, should there be a certain percentage of tags guaranteed to non-residents? Something that protects this percentage rather than seemingly fighting for it every other year in each state?

I’ll put my helmet and armor on now. Genuinely curious. Just looking for education.

 

[BuzzH]

This is the thread I meant to post this on:

I was having a conversation with my brother today and he was asking questions I had trouble answering. I’ve always accepted the fact that as a non-resident I have access permission to public land but I have no guaranteed rights to hunt game on those lands because wildlife is managed by the state.

I’ve always accepted this fact and not really had a problem with it. I try to draw tags in the non-resident pool and feel fortunate to have this opportunity. But aren’t the folks that manage said wildlife heavily subsidized by federal taxes such as Pittman-Robertson? If most (or a large portion) of this cost of management is indeed coming from federal money and non-resident money, should there be a certain percentage of tags guaranteed to non-residents? Something that protects this percentage rather than seemingly fighting for it every other year in each state?

I’ll put my helmet and armor on now. Genuinely curious. Just looking for education.

Decent question.

Short answer PR money, actually the Federal Aid in Wildlife Restoration act, is not "federal" in the sense that it comes from the federal budget. Its a federal Act that was passed by hunters and firearms owner that self imposed an 11% tax on firearms, ammo.

So, not every US citizen is paying that tax only those that purchase a firearm, ammo and other sporting goods.

So something to think about...is that of all the people that pay this tax, a small percentage are actually hunters. A vast majority of the funding comes from shooting sports advocates, or your neighbor who may not hunt but likes to shoot trap. Or your neighbor that buys a firearm for personal protection.

Its dolled out to EVERY state based on certain criteria such as hunting license sales. The funding can't be used for just anything, there are side-boards on the funding.'

Finally, no, as a NR you are not entitled to a single tag in any state. Wildlife is held in trust for the citizens of the State it resides in. This has been upheld in court case after court case after court case. Just do a google search...lots of case law.

This was also passed in the 109th congress in 2005-2006 S.339....

A BILL



To reaffirm the authority of States to regulate certain hunting and
fishing activities.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the
United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the ``Reaffirmation of State Regulation of
Resident and Nonresident Hunting and Fishing Act of 2005''.

SEC. 2. DECLARATION OF POLICY AND CONSTRUCTION OF CONGRESSIONAL
SILENCE.

(a) In General.--It is the policy of Congress that it is in the
public interest for each State to continue to regulate the taking for
any purpose of fish and wildlife within its boundaries, including by
means of laws or regulations that differentiate between residents and
nonresidents of such State with respect to the availability of licenses
or permits for taking of particular species of fish or wildlife, the
kind and numbers of fish and wildlife that may be taken, or the fees
charged in connection with issuance of licenses or permits for hunting
or fishing.
(b) Construction of Congressional Silence.--Silence on the part of
Congress shall not be construed to impose any barrier under clause 3 of
Section 8 of Article I of the Constitution (commonly referred to as the
``commerce clause'') to the regulation of hunting or fishing by a State
or Indian tribe.

SEC. 3. LIMITATIONS.

Nothing in this Act shall be construed--
(1) to limit the applicability or effect of any Federal law
related to the protection or management of fish or wildlife or
to the regulation of commerce;
(2) to limit the authority of the United States to prohibit
hunting or fishing on any portion of the lands owned by the
United States; or
(3) to abrogate, abridge, affect, modify, supersede or
alter any treaty-reserved right or other right of any Indian
tribe as recognized by any other means, including, but not
limited to, agreements with the United States, Executive
Orders, statutes, and judicial decrees, and by Federal law.

SEC. 4. STATE DEFINED.

For purposes of this Act, the term ``State'' includes the several
States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico,
Guam, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and the Commonwealth of the
Northern Mariana Islands.


So, no you are 100% at the mercy of the States as a NR hunter with no guarantee of a single tag, how much they charge you, etc.

 

[dreamingWest]

What my brother was so disappointed about, and I sympathize, is the fact that the hunters and firearm owners that passed the Pittman-Robertson, likely had every expectation they and generations to come would be able to hunt those lands the act would help manage.

 

[BuzzH]

What my brother was so disappointed about, and I sympathize, is the fact that the hunters and firearm owners that passed the Pittman-Robertson, likely had every expectation they and generations to come would be able to hunt those lands the act would help manage.

Why can't they hunt them? Everyone is a resident of at least one state, and, correct me if I'm wrong, is there a single state that allows NO non-resident hunting of some kind?

I hunt 4-6 states a year, every year. Have hunted 4 states since this past November...Montana, Wyoming, Illinois and Arizona.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

The arrogance, condescending nature, and pure vitriol for NR hunters from certain WY residents was truly on full display in this thread. Wow.

 

[dieselchessy]

Some of you surprise me with your lack of awareness of Buzz. He’s been around on the Fire, Hunt talk, and here for years. He’s especially popular over on the Fire. They have entire threads just for that guy.

If anything he’s consistent in his delivery.

 

[cgasner1]

If Wyoming wants to give the residents a better shot at the moose sheep and goat why not put them
All in a random draw instead of that top tier


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[Gobbler36]

Totally agree regarding the threat of lost winter range having a direct impact on all ungulates on the landscape. Keeping outfitter lease and private trespass fee rates strong helps keep those ranches from turning into ranchettes/subdivisions. Not saying it’s a perfect solution, but given current economics, I think it’s hard to argue reducing WY NR LE allocation won’t reduce the value of lease and trespass rates that help stave off subdivision. My $.02.

Good point here I feel