Wyoming proposal to slash Non-resident hunters

[tdhanses]

Sir I was going to say the same, be sure to ask Sy if he will support removing the wilderness law for NR, you'll see then how much he is on your side.

Oh no way he would, outfitters are purely out for their livelihood but who can blame them, doesn’t mean we have to agree but yup they want their cake and to eat it as well, same as everyone, but they have had that for many years. I could swallow this 90/10 much better if WY opened the wilderness up But I bet guys with influence like Buzz were afraid if they added that that it wouldn’t then get the bill passed. Also why would residents fight for the NR, yes you want our cash in your economy but you don’t want us.

 

[jmez]

And? The poster above didn't understand that Wyoming residents can hunt all the deer, elk, and antelope they want with a tag from Walmart. I was responding to him. I'm guessing many people don't understand that and feel like poor Wyoming residents are going without food because of rich people moving in on their tags.

This is about trophy tags and trophy hunting. Nothing less, nothing more. Just like delaying the resident elk draw, what it really was about was getting more trophy tags into the hands of residents. Oh, well.

I agree with this but it extends to both sides. NR are not losing any elk tags with this switch. It is about trophy tags and trophy hunting for NR's as well.

 

[Beendare]

Has anyone actually ran the numbers to see how much less Wyoming will bring in from nonresident license fees?

...

 

[jmez]

Has anyone actually ran the numbers to see how much less Wyoming will bring in from nonresident license fees?

...

With this bill? It is going to increase the revenue as they are raising tag prices across the board. Doing away with the special draw and across the board increase.

 

[voltage]

I sent the below message to the Casper Chamber of Commerce and the following senators:
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

Good morning,

I am a Missouri resident. I am emailing you in opposition in Senate File 103 (SF103). I acknowledge you don’t owe my anything as I am not your constituent, but I think sharing my past experiences and future plans in Wyoming will show you the detriment that SF103 will bring to Wyoming.

I started buying points for big game licenses in Wyoming in 2017. I went on my first antelope hunt in 2019. I went on my second Wyoming hunt in 2020. While on those hunts, I stayed in Wyoming hotels and frequented Wyoming businesses. Some of the restaurants that my party and I went to included (but were not limited to):

Sherrie’s Place
Wyoming Ale Works
Silver Fox Steakhouse
Firewood Pizza
Texas Roadhouse
Wyoming’s Rib and Chop House
Multiple fast food restaurants

Additionally, I have paid Wyoming meat processors to process my harvested animals. I booked a trout trip with a local guide in 2020. I have spent money at Wyoming sporting goods stores for gear. I have purchased gallons of coffee and even more gallons of gasoline in Wyoming. I have spent money with Wyoming Uber drivers to get me to and from the restaurants mentioned above.

In addition to me buying points and licenses, I am closely affiliated with 9 other Wyoming nonresidents that are currently buying points, and I plan to return to with if and when they draw a tag. As a lover of food and mattresses, I plan to spend money at hotels and restaurants on those trips as well.

I want to continue hunting in Wyoming often. I plan to do both DIY and outfitted hunts. Both of these stimulate the Wyoming economy. I can promise you that I will continue to be a frequent Wyoming visitor if SF103 does not pass.

I currently have guided trips on the books for 2021 (elk), 2023 (mule deer), and 2025 (elk). As I type this, I just got off the phone with my 2025 outfitter. He said I won’t be able to draw if this passes. If I can’t draw tags, I will quit buying Wyoming points and I will be forced to spend my money in other states. Additionally, my friends and family who play the Wyoming point game will undoubtedly follow suit. Demand for 85% more expensive antelope tags will decrease. Additionally, when people are forced to spend more on tags, they will spend less in the local economy. This

SF103 is nearsighted in which it does not consider the effect that tag cost increases and a reduction of NR tags will have on the economy. I will go to Wyoming every year if I can. I urge you to vote against SF103. SF103 is not in the best interesting of Wyoming. If this does not pass, I can assure you I will continue to spend my money in Wyoming as often as I have a tag (or one of my friends or family have a tag).

 

[robby denning]

You are sadly spot on Robby. I spotted my first “wild” (non RMNP or 14er) mtn goat while soaking in the springs a dozen years ago, while enjoying the best dark liquor I could afford at the time. Confirmed I had landed in the terrestrial approximation of Heaven. The next morning packing out about 30 minutes after sunrise, I went down to the hot springs to snap a picture, only to find a dude floating in the middle by his lonesome, fully nude. He must have been hoping to catch the thermals for a morning sail, as he was ‘full mast’ above the water

Hahahahshah. That’s Colorado for you.


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[robby denning]

Interesting topic. I was just chatting with a famous Utah outfitter the other day who sold me an Elk Hunt in a trophy unit 20 years ago. The deal was to give him a deposit, freeze the hunt price and I’d certainly draw the tag in 3-5 years. That was exactly 20 years ago and I’m still chasing that tag. Might draw it sometime within the next ten years, who knows.

Well, I could get upset about that but I’ve been applying in a number of western mountain states for decades. Over the years I’ve drawn a few Archery Muley and Antelope tags in a few mountain states including Wyoming and took some really nice bucks in places that certainly weren’t trophy units. While waiting to draw also did a bunch of research and routinely hunted whatever species wasn’t currently in vogue both here and abroad. There are some great hunts to discover if one puts in the research time and remain open to travel. Had some wonderful adventures and checked off quite a few critters from my bucket list. But now there’s a new problem. I have a ton of points and might actually be able to draw some tags.

Been in the western state draw system for ages and witnessed non-res tag opportunities steadily diminish while prices increase. The beginning of the end were systems and newsletters which demystified the application process and channeled everyone to apply for the same tags, combine this with the internet and the applicant pool skyrocketed. This also impacted resident hunters who can directly impact in-state politicians, making non-residents a convienient scapegoat. Further limiting non-res access does nothing to improve long term hunting quality or wildlife resource management, but it makes a good headline in the local paper. It will also further isolate the state from the broader hunting community. At some point big $ contributors to SCI, etc will firmly begin challenging why they are spending so much money continually defending assaults on hunting in those states when only residents benefit. It would be ironic if the same folks leading the charge to push out non-residents out end up paying $500-$1000 for in-state tags down the road.

I suspect the non-res plight will only worsen in the short term. So, I’m currently developing a plan to cash in my points for the best hunts available, state by state, before some genius decides the system is just too broken and they will go to a completely random drawing, no longer honoring accumulated preference points for non-residents.

I agree with your overview of the past and potential future fallout to states. Hope we’re both wrong.


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[307]

I sent the below message to the Casper Chamber of Commerce and the following senators:
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]

Good morning,

I am a Missouri resident. I am emailing you in opposition in Senate File 103 (SF103). I acknowledge you don’t owe my anything as I am not your constituent, but I think sharing my past experiences and future plans in Wyoming will show you the detriment that SF103 will bring to Wyoming.

I started buying points for big game licenses in Wyoming in 2017. I went on my first antelope hunt in 2019. I went on my second Wyoming hunt in 2020. While on those hunts, I stayed in Wyoming hotels and frequented Wyoming businesses. Some of the restaurants that my party and I went to included (but were not limited to):

Sherrie’s Place
Wyoming Ale Works
Silver Fox Steakhouse
Firewood Pizza
Texas Roadhouse
Wyoming’s Rib and Chop House
Multiple fast food restaurants

Additionally, I have paid Wyoming meat processors to process my harvested animals. I booked a trout trip with a local guide in 2020. I have spent money at Wyoming sporting goods stores for gear. I have purchased gallons of coffee and even more gallons of gasoline in Wyoming. I have spent money with Wyoming Uber drivers to get me to and from the restaurants mentioned above.

In addition to me buying points and licenses, I am closely affiliated with 9 other Wyoming nonresidents that are currently buying points, and I plan to return to with if and when they draw a tag. As a lover of food and mattresses, I plan to spend money at hotels and restaurants on those trips as well.

I want to continue hunting in Wyoming often. I plan to do both DIY and outfitted hunts. Both of these stimulate the Wyoming economy. I can promise you that I will continue to be a frequent Wyoming visitor if SF103 does not pass.

I currently have guided trips on the books for 2021 (elk), 2023 (mule deer), and 2025 (elk). As I type this, I just got off the phone with my 2025 outfitter. He said I won’t be able to draw if this passes. If I can’t draw tags, I will quit buying Wyoming points and I will be forced to spend my money in other states. Additionally, my friends and family who play the Wyoming point game will undoubtedly follow suit. Demand for 85% more expensive antelope tags will decrease. Additionally, when people are forced to spend more on tags, they will spend less in the local economy. This

SF103 is nearsighted in which it does not consider the effect that tag cost increases and a reduction of NR tags will have on the economy. I will go to Wyoming every year if I can. I urge you to vote against SF103. SF103 is not in the best interesting of Wyoming. If this does not pass, I can assure you I will continue to spend my money in Wyoming as often as I have a tag (or one of my friends or family have a tag).

Why do you falsely claim that there is a reduction in NR tags?

Why is it so difficult to understand that there will NOT be a single tag reduced by this legislation?

It would be malpractice for the state to NOT raise the price when they have such an overwhelming demand for their product. WGFD has a responsibility to manage game for the state of Wyoming which includes establishing and charging a price which maximizes the $ amount available to benefit the wildlife in the state of WY.

 

[realunlucky]

It's ok for you to lobby for your best interests but not ok for non residents to lobby for thiers?


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[tdhanses]

Why do you falsely claim that there is a reduction in NR tags?

Why is it so difficult to understand that there will NOT be a single tag reduced by this legislation?

It would be malpractice for the state to NOT raise the price when they have such an overwhelming demand for their product. WGFD has a responsibility to manage game for the state of Wyoming which includes establishing and charging a price which maximizes the $ amount available to benefit the wildlife in the state of WY.

So does WY only manage 7000+ elk tags, really WY would do better if this is about game management to reduce resident tags or tags as whole. There is a reduction of prime tags, yes? Don’t sell this as managing anything but resident complaints and a way to reduce NR opportunity, say it for what it is, a reduction in prime units for NR.

It also can be said WY is doing their game a disservice by not raising resident prices for the betterment of game management, until that happens this has nothing to do with management but more of a sticking it to NR. Why do residents have such a hard time paying double what they do now, still would be extremely cheap for residents. It’s obvious there is an overwhelming demand by residents if they need 90% of tags.

 

[voltage]

Why do you falsely claim that there is a reduction in NR tags?

Why is it so difficult to understand that there will NOT be a single tag reduced by this legislation?

It would be malpractice for the state to NOT raise the price when they have such an overwhelming demand for their product. WGFD has a responsibility to manage game for the state of Wyoming which includes establishing and charging a price which maximizes the $ amount available to benefit the wildlife in the state of WY.

There is a reduction? Check out SF103 23-1-703(e).

Don't get me wrong, I have an agenda. I am pointing out all that will be hurt by the changes of SF103 (local economy, reduction of point purchases, etc.).

Perhaps you think all tags should go to an auction?

 

[ManyBullets]

So are the residents of wyoming lacking opportunity? Are they not able to regularly get a tag?

With some of the comments about what other states do you'd think Wyoming guys would be copying the state income taxes of California and Oregon, and following Utah's tag auctioning policies and CWMU handouts because that's what other states do. Meth isn't a crime in Oregon so you guys should loosen up on that too. Not like no one in Wyoming is using it.

Why not just have the residents pay a little more for their tags? I mean these valuable $600 antelope are $42 for residents. $42 is a lotttttt of value. Elk are $62? Looks like Wyoming really values those beautiful elk less than a tank of gas. Even Arizona charges $148 for their resident elk tags so you guys should step up and get in line with them. Their antelope are a whopping $103 so you've got lots of room to catch up to other states and show everyone how much you value your wildlife. You're practically giving away MSG tags for residents at today's prices. Might be time to catch up on those too since we know it's expensive to manage those.

All the incidental businesses and families that are about to lose NR revenue might like it if residents hiked their fees on some of these tags just to keep up with what other states are doing.

 

[tdhanses]

Maybe an answer to this is that for a state to receive any federal funding on license sales that resident tags must be no less then 50% or equal to NR license costs, the Pittman-Robertson Act has had many amendments over the year.

The Pittman–Robertson Act took over a preëxisting 11% excise tax on firearms and ammunition.[7][8] Instead of going into the U.S. Treasury as it had done in the past, the money generated by the tax is instead given to the Secretary of the Interiorto distribute to the states.[4][8][9] The Secretary determines how much to give to each state based on a formula that takes into account both the area of the state and its number of licensed hunters.[2][3][6][9][10]

States must fulfill certain requirements to use the money apportioned to them. None of the money from their hunting license sales may be used by anyone other than the states' own fish and game departments.[3][6][8] Plans for what to do with the money must be submitted to and approved by the Secretary of the Interior.[6] Acceptable options include research, surveys, management of wildlife and/or habitat, and acquisition or lease of land.[1][6][10] Once a plan has been approved, the state must pay the full cost and is later reimbursed for up to 75% of that cost through the funds generated by the Pittman–Robertson Act.[1][3][10] The 25% of the cost that the state must pay generally comes from its hunting license sales.[1] If, for whatever reason, any of the federal money does not get spent, after two years that money is then reallocated to the Migratory Bird Conservation Act.[6][9]

 

[cnelk]

I can’t imagine how pissed BuzzH is gonna be if this doesn’t pass...

 

[Steve O]

Has anyone actually ran the numbers to see how much less Wyoming will bring in from nonresident license fees?

...

Seriously? You think he is doing this to bring in LESS money? All 7250 elk tags are going to $1100, all deer tags to $620, all antelope tags to $600. Bighorn sheep to over $3000 and Bison over $6000? You cut NR tags by 60% but raise the rates 100% or more. How can “WY” lose...Senator Hicks math obviously shows a big gain. It was in the last page of his summary, I can’t recall the number, 6 or 8 million more? I did see NR hunters spent $300,000,000 and brought 3,100 jobs to WY. That may go down 60% with a 60% reduction in NR licenses...but the elk tags stay at the same capped level...

 

[Shooter264]

So are the residents of wyoming lacking opportunity? Are they not able to regularly get a tag?

With some of the comments about what other states do you'd think Wyoming guys would be copying the state income taxes of California and Oregon, and following Utah's tag auctioning policies and CWMU handouts because that's what other states do. Meth isn't a crime in Oregon so you guys should loosen up on that too. Not like no one in Wyoming is using it.

Why not just have the residents pay a little more for their tags? I mean these valuable $600 antelope are $42 for residents. $42 is a lotttttt of value. Elk are $62? Looks like Wyoming really values those beautiful elk less than a tank of gas. Even Arizona charges $148 for their resident elk tags so you guys should step up and get in line with them. Their antelope are a whopping $103 so you've got lots of room to catch up to other states and show everyone how much you value your wildlife. You're practically giving away MSG tags for residents at today's prices. Might be time to catch up on those too since we know it's expensive to manage those.

All the incidental businesses and families that are about to lose NR revenue might like it if residents hiked their fees on some of these tags just to keep up with what other states are doing.

As a Wyoming resident, I’d be happy to pay triple the current resident tag prices for a 90/10 split. You keep talking about businesses and families losing revenue, that’s fear mongering at best. The state is not going to lose any revenue, for those that chose to bow out and spend their money in another state 5x as many people are waiting in line for a tag. When was the last time Wyoming had leftover NR tags for anything besides doe/fawn antelope? I’ll wait....

 

[ManyBullets]

As a Wyoming resident, I’d be happy to pay triple the current resident tag prices for a 90/10 split. You keep talking about businesses and families losing revenue, that’s fear mongering at best. The state is not going to lose any revenue, for those that chose to bow out and spend their money in another state 5x as many people are waiting in line for a tag. When was the last time Wyoming had leftover NR tags for anything besides doe/fawn antelope? I’ll wait....

2019
We picked up a couple.

 

[tdhanses]

As a Wyoming resident, I’d be happy to pay triple the current resident tag prices for a 90/10 split. You keep talking about businesses and families losing revenue, that’s fear mongering at best. The state is not going to lose any revenue, for those that chose to bow out and spend their money in another state 5x as many people are waiting in line for a tag. When was the last time Wyoming had leftover NR tags for anything besides doe/fawn antelope? I’ll wait....

Only time will tell, when MT made their big change there were plenty of left over tags for many years.

You are willing to but I bet the majority in WY are not, hence no resident increase of any substance.

 

[Shooter264]

2019
We picked up a couple.

Couple what? Are you referring to the “glitch” in the system that locked residents out of the system and sold the leftover elk tags to non residents? Yea my friends benefited from that as well from PA

 

[Rob5589]

The reality is that states/residents love the NR dollars, they just don't like the NR themselves. Some will say, "Then move here if you don't like it." Seriously, you want more people moving there? You are already complaining that it is being over run with "Californians." What you should want is to reasonably accommodate the NR so that they don't feel as though they need to move there.

It also seems that residents have no problems getting tags. In this case, it appears to shift more premium tags to residents and away from NR. As an idea, I don't see a huge issue. Only now that means more general area hunters which could worsen crowding in those areas. I have nothing to back that, just an assumption.

With regards to the "value" of the wildlife; how much "value" can residents be placing on an animal if it only cost you the same as a decent bottle of bourbon or tank of gas?

Eventually as more and more people move into these states, it is likely residents will begin to fight amongst themselves. It will be "born and raised" vs the "immigrants."

The truth is, NR pay for a large portion of F&G agencies in all states. And that is fine, you have to "pay to play," as the saying goes. But, do not attempt to silence their voice when it comes to matters that apply to only them. In WY, those voices are worth ~30 million a year. I would think that they would be worth listening to.