Wyoming Hunter Fined $10,000 for Mistaking a Grizzly for a Black Bear

[svivian]

So lets say they let the kid off for way less. When a poacher gets caught later on, will his lawyer use the kids case as an example to lower his clients fines and time?

Is punishment based on the actual crime or if the person tries to hide it?

Just playing devils advocate. I too would like to think they should go easier for those who are honest. Unfortunately i feel that can be used negatively later on. Just my .02

 

[Trial153]

For reference, in this case last year

Chewning was charged with the following crimes, according to Game and Fish:

• Five counts of intentionally taking antlered big game without a license or during a closed season
• Two counts of transferring a license
• Two counts of intentionally wasting edible portions of game bird and big game back straps
• Five counts of transporting game without an interstate game tag. The illegal transportation charges related to five skulls with antlers attached that Game and Fish said Chewing illegally collected

He pled guilty to three counts of intentionally taking antlered bull elk without a proper license, one count of taking a buck mule deer without a license and one count of transferring a license, according to Game and Fish. Chewning’s hunting and fishing privileges were suspended for 15 years and he was ordered to pay $1,585 in fines and $7,000 in restitution. The other charges against Chewning were dismissed.


Macy was charged with the following crimes, according to Game and Fish:

• Five counts of intentionally taking antlered big game without a license or during a closed season
• Two counts of transferring a license

He pled no contest to one count of taking a buck mule deer without a license and two counts of intentionally taking a bull elk without a proper license, according to Game and Fish. Macy’s hunting and fishing privileges were suspended for two years and he was ordered to pay $5,640 in fines and $1,500 in restitution. He was also ordered to forfeit the Browning .338 rifle used in the crimes, according to Game and Fish. All other charges against him were dismissed.

Then a few of the dollar amounts from that huge bust last year

On June 10, 2020, he appeared in court and pleaded guilty to illegally killing two bighorn sheep rams. Sixth Circuit Court Judge Matt Castano imposed $20,070 in fines, $10,000 in restitution and suspended Vick’s hunting, fishing and trapping privileges for 10 years.

Vick was charged with killing three mature bull moose and one yearling bull moose without a license in the Bighorn National Forest between 2007 and 2011...Fourth Judicial Circuit Court Judge Shelley Cundiff sentenced him to one year in the Sheridan County Detention Center, with seven days of credit served. He was ordered to pay $40,160 in fines, $30,000 in restitution and began his incarceration that day.

No real apples to apples comparison but good frame of reference. Given that, I'd say the punishment isn't too steep given that it will likely be expunged from his criminal record, and he maintains his ability to hunt and fish. If he pays $5k of it and is granted relief from the rest I'd say that's a fair outcome too.

Good context.

Seems like everyone involved acted reasonably.

 

[Flyjunky]

$10K to me is a rightfully steep fine for the offense. I still credit the hunter for doing the right thing, he sounds like he did not have nefarious intent. But that’s why he was not hit with the maximum penalty which would have included jail time. Idk what it costs for a guided grizzly hunt but I bet it’s a lot more than $10K, if they can even be hunted at all, these animals have a monetary value to the local hunting economy in addition to their inherent value.

A guided mule deer or elk hunt goes for a lot more than what poachers are fined for so that’s not a very good gauge.

 

[sivart]

I think 10K is steep for an accident, not to mention they need thinned out anyway.

 

[DAOutfitters208]

I disagree. He owned the mistake, and it kept him out of jail. Owning up to a mistake is responsible, but it doesn't entitle anyone to avoiding punishment altogether. Good on this man for owning the mistake. At the end of the day he illegally killed a protected animal, there should be a penalty so he should own that too. He also broke one of the most fundamental firearm safety rules in that he wasn't sure of his target.

His son did, he didn’t kill anything

I disagree. He owned the mistake, and it kept him out of jail. Owning up to a mistake is responsible, but it doesn't entitle anyone to avoiding punishment altogether. Good on this man for owning the mistake. At the end of the day he illegally killed a protected animal, there should be a penalty so he should own that too. He also broke one of the most fundamental firearm safety rules in that he wasn't sure of his target.

Technically he did none of that. His son shot it.

 

[wytx]

He told his son to shoot it and then owned up to the mistake.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

I think the amount of the fine is unfortunate. There is very little motivation to self report when they fine people like this. Honest mistakes happen, it appears that is all this was. Not sure what kind of resources this guy has, hopefully people step up and cover the fine for him with a go fund me or something. If the legal system won’t reward integrity, we should.

 

[dtchhuntr]

I was a first time black bear hunter last year and two thoughts kept running through my head, 1. Make damn sure it isn't a grizz. 2. Make sure it is over a year old.

I felt more confident in the identification, although dang that picture would have made me looking hard for a while. The age thing was harder for me based on what I thought was relatively small bears I ran into and never having seen a bear before beyond on the big screen from my living room. Ended up seeing 5 and passing on 3 I had shots on as they just looked awfully small for what I imagined they would. My buddy said I messed up, and I probably did. But I didn't have as much time as I would have liked to really sit and observe, so I erred on the side of caution. I just was too nervous to accidentally shoot something that ended up being too young.

All in all, while 10K is steep, I don't think it was too far off. 5-7K maybe is a little more in line with what I would have thought, but I get the 10K. Gets to keep hunting and goes off his record in a year entirely. The money sucks of course, but fines are supposed to suck.

 

[Jbehredt]

Mistakingly shooting a human in CO only results in a $500 fine. And 90 days of free room and board.

 

[Schoolhousegrizz]

No easy answer here. I think a fine was justified but not 10 grand. How about a little mercy to someone who made an honest mistake and was owning up to it. If I was the judge, I would have made him pay a thousand bucks and been done with it. However, it's easy to sit here and play sideline quarterback.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

I disagree. He owned the mistake, and it kept him out of jail. Owning up to a mistake is responsible, but it doesn't entitle anyone to avoiding punishment altogether. Good on this man for owning the mistake. At the end of the day he illegally killed a protected animal, there should be a penalty so he should own that too. He also broke one of the most fundamental firearm safety rules in that he wasn't sure of his target.

A FAR more appropriate penalty would be a $100 fine, 2-3 years probation, and a 100 hours or something of community service.

He didn’t harm anyone, had zero criminal intent, and owned up to his MISTAKE. Scumbags burning police cars, destroying peoples property with criminal intent and voting for people like AOC get far less punishment nowadays.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

I'll play the other side. There's been a huge problem with people shooting nonlegal moose and sheep in AK recently.

Imagine someone being $8K into a one in a lifetime DIY moose hunt and they're looking at a squeaker in the scope on the last day knowing that they can roll the dice on it either being legal or if it's sublegal they can just turn it in and be rewarded for their cooperation and only pay $2k. I don't need to ask the question to the group if they think the hunter in this case is more or less likely to shoot or not shoot depending on $$ associated with the punishment. Same with some guy that's on his last year living in AK and has a squeaker sheep in the scope. He knows that he either gets his sheep or pays $30K another time. If his fine is only a couple grand if he turns himself in on "good faith", is it worth rolling the dice? Probably. Imagine someone from the east coast just made a massive financial and time sacrifice to hunt in Wyoming this fall and sees and article where some guy shot a grizzly in the spring and was only charged $500 when he turned it in. Is he gonna be more or less likely to identify his target if the article he read said $500 or $10,000? Properly identify your target and be damn sure it's legal before pulling the trigger. I respect the man for turning himself in.

They need to exponentially increase punishment for people that are not self reporting or purposely poaching.


I think we're almost all in agreement that if he (or anyone) is the type of person that does it again, he wasn't fined enough the first time. I don't agree at all with the augment that this will make people less likely to self report, especially when the fine for that is a felony and in the six figures. You never know who is watching you in the mountains, who saw you at the trailhead, etc.

One hole in your thinking is you don’t get to keep the animal if it’s not legal so in all your scenarios all the hunter gets is a fine they don’t keep the animal so there is zero reward for rolling the dice on a questionable animal.

Fining an honest man $10,000 for a mistake is nothing but Govt overreach and does nothing to prevent actual poachers looking to get away with it who will never be caught unless they are caught in the act or a friend reports them after the fact. No doubt there are thousands of illegal animals hanging in scumbags houses all across the country cause they weren’t caught nor were they deterred by the sucker they read about who self reported and got a $10000 fine.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

ABSOLUTELY! Thank you for posting this. I and my son are the ones who mistook this grizzly for a black bear! We have been scrutinized as being possible threats to society. Thankfully the prosecuting attorney decided that with our clean record and turning ourselves in, they would not see us as a threat to society and in return not give me supervised probation for 1 year----OH GEE, THANKS! Yet, a repeat DUI offender on the front page of the newspaper is on her 4th DUI and is handed her license back -- A true threat to society! Here is the video of the whole story of our Grizzly bear. Please consider supporting my son and I. At least like and share out video. Thanks in advance.

Thanks for sharing - great video!

 

[pirogue]

So, in the article, , ““I immediately confirmed it was a grizzly bear,” WGFD game warden Travis Crane wrote in an affidavit. “[It had] a large, dished head and large, mostly straight claws on its front feet.”

I thought the shoulder hump was a telltale characteristic. Who’s going to look at the claws on the front feet, before they say, “Oh, that’s a Griz”. Sounds like something WYOGA would brainwash the WY G&F commission into their requirement of having a guide in a wilderness area.

 

[lif]

They should have paid the guy $10k instead of fining him.

 

[TaperPin]

This is the “find out” stage of pushing game laws in a Wyoming adventure.

Unlike states with lax game laws, Wyoming even lost the director of the Game and Fish Department one year because he didn’t have a valid fishing license.

In the slow season game wardens knock on a lot of doors with a citation book in hand when paper trails don’t add up and cross checking records indicates you may have violated something. One year my hunters safety card # didn’t show up and in January they knocked - simply showing my card was enough and that was that.

Don‘t finish off your wife’s deer for her, or think nobody is looking when you’re way out in the middle of nowhere. They know exactly where boundaries are and you won’t get a warning.

The guy is lucky he didn’t forfeit everything used in taking that bear - rifle, gear, truck. Ask the outfitters that have lost airplanes illegally spotting game how strict the state is.

If you grow up in Wyoming that’s just the normal way things are done. We tend to think of a lot of out of state hunts as slobs because they don’t believe our laws are enforced and act accordingly. It cost a friend of mine $3500 because his ram was 1/4” short of 3/4 curl - he knew better.

 

[MuleyFever]

It's interesting to see the biased opinions here. Someone poaches elk and it's a death sentence. Kill a grizzly and it's give him a break. A grizzly tag for a NR is in line with the fine.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Seems like a giant penalty for an honest mistake… heck tons of people committing actual crimes against other humans ie auto theft, that get off easier than this kid&dad. Would like to see how black said griz was though

 

[TxxAgg]

Thanks for posting the video. Good job telling what really happened

 

[TaperPin]

Here is the video of my son and I and this bear hunt -- a side you will never hear in the media-- Please like and share.

Dude, I’m not saying you’re a bad guy - I was right there enjoying the excitement of your son in the moment, but what happened is exactly why guys like me warn anyone that’s interested to not think a Wyoming game warden will accept an excuse. You mentioned a friend who is a wildlife biologist and the same thing happened to him - the same thing will happen to the next 20 guys in the same situation. The same thing happens 100 times a year across the state with all the animals that are hunted. That’s the way it’s been for at least 5 decades.

Seeing the front profile of the bears head sure did look like a black, but the rule of thumb has always been to not make an identification on one aspect alone. That used to be in every Wyoming hunters safety class 40 years ago and in the bear regs. It’s easy to pick apart things after the fact, and I did wait to see more side profile and saw the shoulder hump as he walked closer, but in the moment I may have overlooked that and shot him. Just like I may have shot the 3/4 curl ram my buddy shot that was 1/4” short.

I don’t think ethical hunters are made or broke on situations like this. Accidents happen. If someone has a car accident and a dash cam that shows how careful they were before crashing into someone’s fence, you still have to pay for the fence.