Wyoming draft regulations 2024

[Travis Hobbs]

A new episode with Jeff Short is recorded and in the Rokcast pipeline as well as an episode with Brock McMillan and Randy Larsen. Should both be out in the next couple weeks!

 

[bdan68]

There's a lot of discussion on APRs in this video, it starts about 28 minutes in.

 

[CorbLand]

A new episode with Jeff Short is recorded and in the Rokcast pipeline as well as an episode with Brock McMillan and Randy Larsen. Should both be out in the next couple weeks!

I have a twelve hour drive Sunday. Chop chop.

 

[Jaden Bales]

There's a lot of discussion on APRs in this video, it starts about 28 minutes in.

I thought this was really a good overview of APRs and their impacts because they had some good percentages to put the effects into something tangible. Definitely worth the watch.

 

[Laramie]

"Even in herds with single digit buck:doe ratio, pregnancy rates are well over 90%"

I would be interested to hear how many of the pregnant does got bred late in those scenarios and what fawn survival rates looked like for the fawns born a month later. Guessing quite a few variables exist making it hard to measure results on a broad scale. It would also be interesting to hear about buck condition going into winter with different ratios. Do bucks enter winter in better shape with lower breeding competition? I realize that doesn't have near the overall population impact but as hunters I am guessing most would be interested to know.

All good discussion - appreciate everyone's thoughts.

 

[Shadow Walker]

Attempting to restrict buck harvest will do nothing to rebound the deer population quicker.

In fact a lot of data shows, the higher the buck to doe ratio, the less productive the herd or slower it is to rebound.

After the rough winters in the early 80’s, the buck to doe ratio hit some of its lowest numbers ever estimated, in 1985 specifically, The Wyoming range had a buck to doe ratio of 17 bucks per 100 does, significantly less than where it sits now at around 25 bucks per 100 does.

Yet in the following years after these low buck to doe ratios from 85 to 1990 the fawn to doe ratio was estimated at an amazing 80-90 fawns per 100 does and the Wyoming Range witnessed incredible rebounds, building to a herd of nearly 60k animals. For reference WY Range hasn’t hit 80 fawns per 100 does in over 20 years, in fact I think it has only hit 70 fawns per 100 does once in 20 years.

What Wyoming is doing with these recommendations is similar to a rancher losing 80% of all his cattle, and only selling a portion of his “bull calves” at the auction for 3-4 years to “build his herd”. Sure, he’s got “more animals”, but at what cost? A pasture full of bulls, consuming resources when it could be mother cows isn’t good practice.

APR’s have been in place past the point of helping. The truth is, a great many of the young 1.5 year old bucks die of natural causes anyway, letting hunters take them means little in the population.

Shortening season dates have been shown at times to do very little but restrict opportunity. And in many cases, actually have increased buck harvest and even make hunters spend more days afield than when they had longer dates. I think this is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The truth is, I’d bet anyone a 1k dollars, you will never see season dates increase in Western Wyoming once they are limited, history tells me all I need to know.

At the end of the day, I really don’t care what Wyoming does, as my ship has probably sailed in Western Wyoming. I don’t have a dog in the fight. I’m a nonresident and I’ll probably not be able to return unless I get shit house lucky and pull a random tag.

The residents should come first, and if this is what they desire, less opportunity, more restrictions, then so be it.

I think there are way more important places to focus the energy people are putting into restricting buck hunting.

Travis,

I love your passion on this and other topics that benefit mule deer. You make some very good points. Also, congratulations on your recent award. You are a positive voice for the hunting community.

That said, I’m wondering if this is a rhetorical offer:

”The truth is, I’d bet anyone a 1k dollars, you will never see season dates increase in Western Wyoming once they are limited, history tells me all I need to know.”

If you're being literal, I’ll accept your wager. I do think they’ll expand the season dates if the herd recovers. And to soften the blow when you lose, after you give me the $1,000, I’ll treat you to a steak dinner at the restaurant of your choice. We can discuss the pros and cons of horses and mules.

I had to read through all the comments to make sure I’m the first to accept your offer. Looks like I am — and I do like making easy money.

Tracy
(Shadow Walker)

 

[BigE]

I know this thread is focused on the mule deer changes, but the proposed elk changes also could have a big impact on the mulies. I started a different thread to focus on the elk side of things.
https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/wyoming-over-run-with-elk.352969/

 

[Jaden Bales]

Travis,

I love your passion on this and other topics that benefit mule deer. You make some very good points. Also, congratulations on your recent award. You are a positive voice for the hunting community.

That said, I’m wondering if this is a rhetorical offer:

”The truth is, I’d bet anyone a 1k dollars, you will never see season dates increase in Western Wyoming once they are limited, history tells me all I need to know.”

If you're being literal, I’ll accept your wager. I do think they’ll expand the season dates if the herd recovers. And to soften the blow when you lose, after you give me the $1,000, I’ll treat you to a steak dinner at the restaurant of your choice. We can discuss the pros and cons of horses and mules.

I had to read through all the comments to make sure I’m the first to accept your offer. Looks like I am — and I do like making easy money.

Tracy
(Shadow Walker)

You must follow along with the Cody region's season length increases these past few years.

 

[Travis Hobbs]

Travis,

I love your passion on this and other topics that benefit mule deer. You make some very good points. Also, congratulations on your recent award. You are a positive voice for the hunting community.

That said, I’m wondering if this is a rhetorical offer:

”The truth is, I’d bet anyone a 1k dollars, you will never see season dates increase in Western Wyoming once they are limited, history tells me all I need to know.”

If you're being literal, I’ll accept your wager. I do think they’ll expand the season dates if the herd recovers. And to soften the blow when you lose, after you give me the $1,000, I’ll treat you to a steak dinner at the restaurant of your choice. We can discuss the pros and cons of horses and mules.

I had to read through all the comments to make sure I’m the first to accept your offer. Looks like I am — and I do like making easy money.

Tracy
(Shadow Walker)

First man, thanks for the comments. I appreciate it.

I was both being literal and rhetorical, as I was more referring to when these things go, they usually don’t come back…

But I’m pretty sure it’s an easy 1k dollars

Let’s put a date on it, 10 years??

I don’t think we will see a season dates extending past Sept 30th ever again (units with dates starting Sept 15th) and I think new proposals (<10 days) will be the new normal for the foreseeable future.

I also don’t think APR’s go away (3 point) in the next 10 years.

I think the only thing that will change it, is limiting residents by numbers in some fashion (which also really sucks) but I think it’s inevitable

 

[bdan68]

Wyoming doesn't do antler point restrictions for more than 3 years at a time. At least I believe that's their general policy.

 

[jbelz]

Wyoming doesn't do antler point restrictions for more than 3 years at a time. At least I believe that's their general policy.

Going on year 5 in central WY

 

[Shadow Walker]

First man, thanks for the comments. I appreciate it.

I was both being literal and rhetorical, as I was more referring to when these things go, they usually don’t come back…

But I’m pretty sure it’s an easy 1k dollars

Let’s put a date on it, 10 years??

I don’t think we will see a season dates extending past Sept 30th ever again (units with dates starting Sept 15th) and I think new proposals (<10 days) will be the new normal for the foreseeable future.

I also don’t think APR’s go away (3 point) in the next 10 years.

I think the only thing that will change it, is limiting residents by numbers in some fashion (which also really sucks) but I think it’s inevitable

Never is definitely a long time…

Tell you what, let’s dial our friendly wager back to a 10 year window and a steak dinner, just for fun … I’ll take the remaining $900 as a discount on your third favorite mule

And for the record, I share your concerns with losing hunting opportunity - by closing hunts, cutting tags, or limiting season dates. It is hard to reverse course on those kinds of things, once we head down the path. The social and political trends are not looking promising at the moment, particularly in the more “liberal” states of the west. I’m hopeful, however, that the hunting community is waking up and that our rising, unified voices will grow louder and stronger and will counterbalance some of the anti-hunting influence. I also hope policy decisions on these topics will follow the science and biology, recognizing that Mother Nature is calling most of the shots. I applaud the continued efforts of improving our critical winter and summer habitat in many areas and I’m encouraged to see Colorado coming to their senses and moving most of the hunting season dates back to October for the next 5 years.

Keep preaching and best of luck this fall!

 

[Travis Hobbs]

Never is definitely a long time…

Tell you what, let’s dial our friendly wager back to a 10 year window and a steak dinner, just for fun … I’ll take the remaining $900 as a discount on your third favorite mule

And for the record, I share your concerns with losing hunting opportunity - by closing hunts, cutting tags, or limiting season dates. It is hard to reverse course on those kinds of things, once we head down the path. The social and political trends are not looking promising at the moment, particularly in the more “liberal” states of the west. I’m hopeful, however, that the hunting community is waking up and that our rising, unified voices will grow louder and stronger and will counterbalance some of the anti-hunting influence. I also hope policy decisions on these topics will follow the science and biology, recognizing that Mother Nature is calling most of the shots. I applaud the continued efforts of improving our critical winter and summer habitat in many areas and I’m encouraged to see Colorado coming to their senses and moving most of the hunting season dates back to October for the next 5 years.

Keep preaching and best of luck this fall!

Hahaha deal!

Steak dinner

 

[Northwet]

I find it interesting that 4 APR are being imposed in so many units, yet in at least one unit APR are being eliminated. The reasoning for the elimination is articulated well in the video posted above, but I wonder if the historical data for that considers the effect of concurrent increases in APR elsewhere.

I hope that combination of imposition (or increase) of APR in many units and elimination in at least one doesn't divert a crap load of hunters to a certain unit without one, as it's close to my home and already known for severe crowding issues.

I'd be interested in hearing the rationale for imposing 4 APR in units that didn't have an APR restriction before in the NW part of the state. I guess I'll need to find and watch that region's video. If the reasoning included prevention of hunters just shifting over to that unit I wonder why that reasoning wouldn't include units in other regions.

 

[Archer86]

I'd be interested in hearing the rationale for imposing 4 APR in units that didn't have an APR restriction before in the NW part of the state. I guess I'll need to find and watch that region's video. If the reasoning included prevention of hunters just shifting over to that unit I wonder why that reasoning wouldn't include units in other regions.

I didnt see anywhere in the nw part of wyoming where they put 4 apr in place maybe I didn't look hard enough.

 

[Northwet]

I didnt see anywhere in the nw part of wyoming where they put 4 apr in place maybe I didn't look hard enough.

Without mentioning particular areas (not sure how strict that rule is when discussing reg changes), look at the units just south of that big NP in the NW corner if you want to see some.

 

[bdan68]

All of region G and H and most of region L are going to 4 point minimum this year.

 

[Archer86]

Without mentioning particular areas (not sure how strict that rule is when discussing reg changes), look at the units just south of that big NP in the NW corner if you want to see some.

I considered cody area nw. I know where you are talking. But thought I missed something in the area I frequent

 

[sneaky]

Short term apr have shown to help the herd the years following a hard winter. It's funny seeing guys be against the apr because they theory is there will be hunters targeting the bucks that they want to shoot In 2 to 3 more years.

No, we're against APR because they don't work. 100% bet that mild winters after a bad winter have a better effect than any damn APR ever implemented. APR will get credit, when mother nature had been doing this for millenia. Go ahead, hammer your mature age classes for three or four years, but expect zero sympathy when you and the rest of the residents get on here and whine about there being scarce numbers of mature bucks on the landscape. You've been provided with the research data, and you've decided to double down on your stance. Ending OTC for residents in G&H would have a far more positive effect on the western Wyoming deer herd, but that'll never pass. Residents want their cake and eat it too.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

 

[sneaky]

More deer on the landscape helps the buck to doe ratio. The data also shows after 3 years its not beneficial to keep apr in place and they should be removed if that's the case. But to do nothing or suggest we take the buck to doe ratios down to single digit ratio is crazy. Try that in your state and get back to us on that.

Either way no real point t in arguing about it its implemented and that not going to change this year so I guess we will see. one thing I am sure about is reducing tags and shortening season should be more important then apr all I see with the guys arguing against apr is that it's going to cause other hunters to target the bucks they want to hunt in a few more years.....

Your reading comprehension sucks. No one said they wanted to take the buck to doe ratio to single digits. Single digits was cited as the range when you get into issues of does not being bred. No one said they wanted single digit buck ratios.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk