Wyoming draft regulations 2024

[CorbLand]

APRs are nothing more than an attempt to make people feel like something is being done. In reality, favorable weather will surely come, the population will rebound and everyone will look at the APR and think it was what saved everything.

We would be far better off to let things roll, fight some bad years of hunting but keep what we currently have as far as opportunity. If you going to limit something, limit what I hunt with, not what I can hunt.

 

[Laramie]

Attempting to restrict buck harvest will do nothing to rebound the deer population quicker.

In fact a lot of data shows, the higher the buck to doe ratio, the less productive the herd or slower it is to rebound.

After the rough winters in the early 80’s, the buck to doe ratio hit some of its lowest numbers ever estimated, in 1985 specifically, The Wyoming range had a buck to doe ratio of 17 bucks per 100 does, significantly less than where it sits now at around 25 bucks per 100 does.

Yet in the following years after these low buck to doe ratios from 85 to 1990 the fawn to doe ratio was estimated at an amazing 80-90 fawns per 100 does and the Wyoming Range witnessed incredible rebounds, building to a herd of nearly 60k animals. For reference WY Range hasn’t hit 80 fawns per 100 does in over 20 years, in fact I think it has only hit 70 fawns per 100 does once in 20 years.

What Wyoming is doing with these recommendations is similar to a rancher losing 80% of all his cattle, and only selling a portion of his “bull calves” at the auction for 3-4 years to “build his herd”. Sure, he’s got “more animals”, but at what cost? A pasture full of bulls, consuming resources when it could be mother cows isn’t good practice.

APR’s have been in place past the point of helping. The truth is, a great many of the young 1.5 year old bucks die of natural causes anyway, letting hunters take them means little in the population.

Shortening season dates have been shown at times to do very little but restrict opportunity. And in many cases, actually have increased buck harvest and even make hunters spend more days afield than when they had longer dates. I think this is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The truth is, I’d bet anyone a 1k dollars, you will never see season dates increase in Western Wyoming once they are limited, history tells me all I need to know.

At the end of the day, I really don’t care what Wyoming does, as my ship has probably sailed in Western Wyoming. I don’t have a dog in the fight. I’m a nonresident and I’ll probably not be able to return unless I get shit house lucky and pull a random tag.

The residents should come first, and if this is what they desire, less opportunity, more restrictions, then so be it.

I think there are way more important places to focus the energy people are putting into restricting buck hunting.

Your listed buck to doe ratio is inaccurate. It is regionally much lower. In one area I am seeing 12 per 100 currently based on areal counts.

This APR is intended to increase that ratio and is only planned to be in place for 2 years. Right now there is concern that in some areas the ratio is so low that some does may not be bred.

I am fully against APR for most reasons but this one makes sense after reviewing recent survey counts.

The negative is this will impact some of the older age classes but in theory it is the quickest way back to ratios that ensure all does get bred. Hopefully it works...

 

[MuleyFever]

If they are dead set on a APR they should have just done a 3pt restriction. That would still protect the youngest age class while allowing mature 3pts to be killed and taking some pressure off the 2-3 year old 4pts.

 

[Travis Hobbs]

APRs are nothing more than an attempt to make people feel like something is being done. In reality, favorable weather will surely come, the population will rebound and everyone will look at the APR and think it was what saved everything.

We would be far better off to let things roll, fight some bad years of hunting but keep what we currently have as far as opportunity. If you going to limit something, limit what I hunt with, not what I can hungry

Your listed buck to doe ratio is inaccurate. It is regionally much lower. In one area I am seeing 12 per 100 currently based on areal counts.

This APR is intended to increase that ratio and is only planned to be in place for 2 years. Right now there is concern that in some areas the ratio is so low that some does may not be bred.

I am fully against APR for most reasons but this one makes sense after reviewing recent survey counts.

The negative is this will impact some of the older age classes but in theory it is the quickest way back to ratios that ensure all does get bred. Hopefully it works...

How long did they intend the current APR to be in place? If APR’s work, why is the buck to doe ratio so low right now? Why the crash? Honest question…

With those APR’s in place and working, they should be holding high. Yet the neighboring units in states right across the border, Utah/ID are reporting fairly consistent buck to doe ratios…. With no APR

If you know of anyone from academia, or WGF saying the does aren’t going to get bred at 12:100 please send me a link…. I haven’t read or heard anything about this, in fact I have heard officials from Wyoming say it would have to get in a single digit buck to doe ratio to have biological effect.

 

[Steve O]

Boggles the mind; take more NR tags away but keep the residents OTC. How’s that going to reduce harvest? NR is an eye dropper filling a 5 gallon bucket.

 

[Travis Hobbs]

I don’t have a dog in this fight either..but I am skeptical of the low buck:doe ratio being cause and effect for herd production. That period in the 80s had some ideal weather from what I’ve read (I wasn’t alive to see it)

I think weather is always the biggest factor.

I think having fur prices at unfathomable rates was a big deal as well. Imagine getting $1k a coyote pelt today, it was even better than that in today’s dollar looking back at 80’s fur markets.

Guys were making a comfortable living only trapping. Making more in 2-3 months than they did in 9-10 months.

Different times for sure.

 

[Archer86]

Boggles the mind; take more NR tags away but keep the residents OTC. How’s that going to reduce harvest? NR is an eye dropper filling a 5 gallon bucket.

I don't see why they reduced nr but taking otc away from residents will hurt the resource and nr tag numbers even more. It will put the nr tags to be adjusted by the cap. And if you think that won't drive 90 10 I don't know what to tell you.

You limit residents and make them choose a tag that's a limited season I am going to spend all season there and I will fill my buck tag the bucks my daughter and I let walk last year dont walk away if that's the only area I can hunt. currently I can hunt close to home and hunt whitetail after the September hunt is closed and fill my tag or I may not fill a tag at all knowing I always have next year. You take that away and all bets are off

 

[Laramie]

How long did they intend the current APR to be in place? If APR’s work, why is the buck to doe ratio so low right now? Why the crash? Honest question…

With those APR’s in place and working, they should be holding high. Yet the neighboring units in states right across the border, Utah/ID are reporting fairly consistent buck to doe ratios…. With no APR

If you know of anyone from academia, or WGF saying the does aren’t going to get bred at 12:100 please send me a link…. I haven’t read or heard anything about this, in fact I have heard officials from Wyoming say it would have to get in a single digit buck to doe ratio to have biological effect.

No clue how long the actual plans are. The crash is being attributed to the winter kill as we lost most of the older age classes of bucks and the entire crop of fawns.

I don't have links to provide. The info I have gotten is through conversations and the feeling I got was that at 12 to 100, there was concern about it going lower and getting to the point there were issues with does being not bred, or bred late, causing lower fawn survival rates.

I am by no means an expert but have studied off and on for the last 30 years. I was a wildlife and fisheries major back in the 90s but pursued more profitable jobs. Admittedly, I am out of touch with current strategies. I do stay in touch with a few people who are involved though. Those I know are against long term APRs but they do feel they provide some benefit when used correctly - ie short term.

 

[willfrye027]

I think weather is always the biggest factor.

I think having fur prices at unfathomable rates was a big deal as well. Imagine getting $1k a coyote pelt today, it was even better than that in today’s dollar looking back at 80’s fur markets.

Guys were making a comfortable living only trapping. Making more in 2-3 months than they did in 9-10 months.

Different times for sure.

Man I can’t imagine! If only we could convince guys that trapping is more fun than shed hunting..sounds like we need some trapper influencers.

 

[CorbLand]

No clue how long the actual plans are. The crash is being attributed to the winter kill as we lost most of the older age classes of bucks and the entire crop of fawns.

I don't have links to provide. The info I have gotten is through conversations and the feeling I got was that at 12 to 100, there was concern about it going lower and getting to the point there were issues with does being not bred, or bred late, causing lower fawn survival rates.

I am by no means an expert but have studied off and on for the last 30 years. I was a wildlife and fisheries major back in the 90s but pursued more profitable jobs. Admittedly, I am out of touch with current strategies. I do stay in touch with a few people who are involved though. Those I know are against long term APRs but they do feel they provide some benefit when used correctly - ie short term.

Listen to the Gohunt podcast they just put out. Granted every unit/region is different but Brock stated that it has to get down to around 8/100 before there is issues with does not being bred. It starts around the 45 minute mark.

 

[CorbLand]

If they are dead set on a APR they should have just done a 3pt restriction. That would still protect the youngest age class while allowing mature 3pts to be killed and taking some pressure off the 2-3 year old 4pts.

I don’t understand this new push to make it four point or better. Kind of seems like there is enough data to show that three point or better doesn’t work so we need to try something “new” to sell it.

I view the four point or better as saying “we know you will die if you run into a brick wall at 125 MPH, so let’s see if something changes at 150…”

 

[Archer86]

I don’t understand this new push to make it four point or better. Kind of seems like there is enough data to show that three point or better doesn’t work so we need to try something “new” to sell it.

I view the four point or better as saying “we know you will die if you run into a brick wall at 125 MPH, so let’s see if something changes at 150…”

Short term apr have shown to help the herd the years following a hard winter. It's funny seeing guys be against the apr because they theory is there will be hunters targeting the bucks that they want to shoot In 2 to 3 more years.

 

[Schoolhousegrizz]

Attempting to restrict buck harvest will do nothing to rebound the deer population quicker.

In fact a lot of data shows, the higher the buck to doe ratio, the less productive the herd or slower it is to rebound.

After the rough winters in the early 80’s, the buck to doe ratio hit some of its lowest numbers ever estimated, in 1985 specifically, The Wyoming range had a buck to doe ratio of 17 bucks per 100 does, significantly less than where it sits now at around 25 bucks per 100 does.

Yet in the following years after these low buck to doe ratios from 85 to 1990 the fawn to doe ratio was estimated at an amazing 80-90 fawns per 100 does and the Wyoming Range witnessed incredible rebounds, building to a herd of nearly 60k animals. For reference WY Range hasn’t hit 80 fawns per 100 does in over 20 years, in fact I think it has only hit 70 fawns per 100 does once in 20 years.

What Wyoming is doing with these recommendations is similar to a rancher losing 80% of all his cattle, and only selling a portion of his “bull calves” at the auction for 3-4 years to “build his herd”. Sure, he’s got “more animals”, but at what cost? A pasture full of bulls, consuming resources when it could be mother cows isn’t good practice.

APR’s have been in place past the point of helping. The truth is, a great many of the young 1.5 year old bucks die of natural causes anyway, letting hunters take them means little in the population.

Shortening season dates have been shown at times to do very little but restrict opportunity. And in many cases, actually have increased buck harvest and even make hunters spend more days afield than when they had longer dates. I think this is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The truth is, I’d bet anyone a 1k dollars, you will never see season dates increase in Western Wyoming once they are limited, history tells me all I need to know.

At the end of the day, I really don’t care what Wyoming does, as my ship has probably sailed in Western Wyoming. I don’t have a dog in the fight. I’m a nonresident and I’ll probably not be able to return unless I get shit house lucky and pull a random tag.

The residents should come first, and if this is what they desire, less opportunity, more restrictions, then so be it.

I think there are way more important places to focus the energy people are putting into restricting buck hunting.

Well said Travis, that's what I was saying in my earlier post. Cutting tags is obviously not the answer. I use to think it was, but if you keep an open-minded and do your research it's obvious that it's not the answer.

 

[CorbLand]

Short term apr have shown to help the herd the years following a hard winter. It's funny seeing guys be against the apr because they theory is there will be hunters targeting the bucks that they want to shoot In 2 to 3 more years.

Does it help the herd or the buck to die ratio? Because those aren’t necessarily the same thing.

 

[Archer86]

Does it help the herd or the buck to die ratio? Because those aren’t necessarily the same thing.

More deer on the landscape helps the buck to doe ratio. The data also shows after 3 years its not beneficial to keep apr in place and they should be removed if that's the case. But to do nothing or suggest we take the buck to doe ratios down to single digit ratio is crazy. Try that in your state and get back to us on that.

Either way no real point t in arguing about it its implemented and that not going to change this year so I guess we will see. one thing I am sure about is reducing tags and shortening season should be more important then apr all I see with the guys arguing against apr is that it's going to cause other hunters to target the bucks they want to hunt in a few more years.....

 

[realunlucky]

More deer on the landscape helps the buck to doe ratio. The data also shows after 3 years its not beneficial to keep apr in place and they should be removed if that's the case. But to do nothing or suggest we take the buck to doe ratios down to single digit ratio is crazy. Try that in your state and get back to us on that.

Either way no real point t in arguing about it its implemented and that not going to change this year so I guess we will see. one thing I am sure about is reducing tags and shortening season should be more important then apr all I see with the guys arguing against apr is that it's going to cause other hunters to target the bucks they want to hunt in a few more years.....

Which data are you referring got a link?

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

 

[Archer86]

Which data are you referring got a link?

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

I am sure you can Google it. Wyoming antlerpoint restriction study. Here is the quick over view from that paper its a short term benefit

 

[Jimss]

I say put the rifle season during time of year when it's the toughest to harvest older age class bucks and if it snows there is tough access. The rifle deer season could also be after the rifle elk season date starts. Mature bucks are a lot tougher to find once they've seen and heard elk hunters in the field before the rifle deer season opens.

Both of these factors would lower the success rate without decreasing tag numbers.

Back when Colo was re-writing the B&C books that's exactly what allowed bucks to age. Believe me, it worked very well in Colorado until they switched over to late rifle season dates and increased tag quotas.

 

[Travis Hobbs]

Short term apr have shown to help the herd the years following a hard winter. It's funny seeing guys be against the apr because they theory is there will be hunters targeting the bucks that they want to shoot In 2 to 3 more years.

I could be completely wrong, but I’m pretty sure, there has been an APR, since 2016 winter in Wyoming Range??

 

[Archer86]

I could be completely wrong, but I’m pretty sure, there has been an APR, since 2016 winter in Wyoming Range??

Yeah I think the southern end of the range has had antler point restrictions. But some areas have not

Would you rather hunt region g in wyoming in a unit that has and a apr or a idaho general unit with no apr?