Wyoming Corner Crossing, LEGAL!

[RyanT26]

I would not run a track on my GPS. The track could hurt you as much as it could help. They are only accurate to a few feet, or even yards so it wont actually prove you didnt cross onto private. And if you have a track of you wandering around trying to find the corner you may just as well prove you did cross on to private.

You dont need to prove you didnt cross onto private. The burden of proof to prosecute will be on the landowner to prove you did trespass. Cover your tracks.

I won’t have my track on when I cross and I won’t show my phone or gps to a warden or deputy if they ask for it in the field. I will do everything in my power to find and cross at the corner. They have the burden of proof, not me.
Again this is going to be hard as hell to enforce. You’re going to have someone physical monitoring corners, cameras or surveillance at the corner, or just deal with it and move on.

 

[Rich M]

Do you really think in your wildest dreams that states and game wardens would have time to set trail cameras on corners? Ranchers, sure they could do that. In all honesty, it would cheaper and easier for them to just mark their corner. I go back to the good people will do good things and bad people will do bad things.

The GPS is the best available technology to be exculpatory or incriminating evidence. Although, I only see it as playing to the accused hunters benefit.


State presents GPS as evidence.
Defense: Ok, great. What other evidence do you have? It will be none unless there is real physical evidence of a trespass. If there is real physical evidence and you’re at trial, your lawyer sucks. You should have taken a deal before going to court. Accuracy of GPS is brought into question by defense and expert witness testifies to inaccuracy. There’s your reasonable doubt. Have a good day.

The state has the burden of proof, not the accused.


Sent from my iPhone

Gonna be interesting to see how it pans out with all the cowboys out there saying they will do as they please.

 

[mad_angler]

So is who's making the new UL corner crossing ladders? Need to get me one!

Here is one idea...

 

[nm.otter]

I found the full ruling entirely worth the time it took to read.

 

[Billinsd]

SAFE-T-STEPPER

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[go_deep]

Jump boots, just jump over the corner all together!

 

[wytx]

LOL

Your stupid replies to my posts always make me laugh.

What stupid reply?? Not all LOs are jerks and most folks know that.
LOs are not going to go out and pull monuments either.
Why do hate so much?

 

[AdvntrSeekr]

I am super interested to see how this all plays out as time goes along. I know of a place or two I would love too implement this, but don't want to get in a legal battle myself. Best to let others who are more interested in fighting duke it out, and get it in the norm first!

 

[wytx]

I would think there are some LEOs and GWs having hard conversations with a few LOs now telling them what they can and can not do to prohibit access.
If you can find a corner marker then cross it, just be respectful of the private lands.

LOs are not going to pull markers they may need to prove someone trespassed.

There will always some that yes, put up cameras because they don't trust the public- residents or NRs for that matter, they watch their property lines during the hunting season too usually.

Some folks that have never hunted Wyoming are going to read some of these comments and think all LOs are a- holes when it is not true. Sure we have our share, as every state does. I've yet to meet more than a couple that fit that bill and I've had plenty to say no when I asked about hunting. Most of those also apologized that they said no for a variety of reasons.

Just cross at the corner.

 

[wapitibob]

I won’t have my track on when I cross and I won’t show my phone or gps to a warden or deputy if they ask for it in the field. I will do everything in my power to find and cross at the corner. They have the burden of proof, not me.
Again this is going to be hard as hell to enforce. You’re going to have someone physical monitoring corners, cameras or surveillance at the corner, or just deal with it and move on.

The burden of proof isn't on law enforcement, all he needs is enough evidence to reasonably conclude there was a probable violation, then he's writing you a ticket. At that point you can pay the ticket or if a nr, drive back to WY and show up in court.

 

[JFK]

The burden of proof isn't on law enforcement

How do you figure?

Unless a guy is actually witnessed crossing in the wrong spot, or caught on camera crossing in the wrong spot, what grounds would law have to conclude a violation took place?

 

[ScreamingPotato]

How do you figure?

Unless a guy is actually witnessed crossing in the wrong spot, or caught on camera crossing in the wrong spot, what grounds would law have to conclude a violation took place?

I see what you're saying, but I've had a few traffic cops tell me "tell it to the judge" when it comes down to proving things. Burden of proof would be in court I believe. LEO don't determine guilt where that comes into play.

 

[GoatPackr]

Pretty easy to follow and take pics of boot tracks in dirt or snow.
Best to make sure you're doing it right.
Being a little off with 1 step in the snow and a LO has everything they need.

 

[RyanT26]

The burden of proof isn't on law enforcement, all he needs is enough evidence to reasonably conclude there was a probable violation, then he's writing you a ticket. At that point you can pay the ticket or if a nr, drive back to WY and show up in court.

Yeah, you might wanna look into how law-enforcement works.
The fact that I am in a checkerboard area or it appeared, I crossed into a checkerboard area is not enough evidence to do a damn thing. So what would his evidence be? The landowner saw me cross? Great! Where were they, 100yards away, a 1/4 mile? Good luck with that. Boot prints, maybe? If I was in the wrong so be it at that point I’ll take the ticket.

There’s a reason there weren’t tickets issued on this before and there’s a reason game wardens for Wyoming game and fish did not want to touch the issue. I doubt anyone’s gonna be a real big hurry to get embarrassed again. The burden of proof is 100% on law-enforcement and the land owner.

 

[RyanT26]

Pretty easy to follow and take pics of boot tracks in dirt or snow.
Best to make sure you're doing it right.
Being a little off with 1 step in the snow and a LO has everything they need.

Again, you are assuming that landowner knows exactly where the corner marker is. If there is even one there. It can’t be guess or estimate on his part either. Remember fence post don’t count.
The LO would have show the corner pin to the deputy. The deputy would then have to see/find evidence of you not crossing at the exact point. If there’s no pin, or he don’t really know where it’s at, tough luck.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

Again, you are assuming that landowner knows where the corner marker is. It can’t be on guess or estimate on his part either. Remember fence post don’t count.

LO has the luxury of walking around looking for it without trespassing, then covering it with a rock.

 

[RyanT26]

LO has the luxury of walking around looking for it without trespassing, then covering it with a rock.

well I guess there’s that… yeah. There’s probably about 1000 what if’s a guy could come up with.
While we’re throwing out hypothetical situations what if a landowner moves the corner pin to an incorrect spot. Then as soon as you crossed, he springs from his hiding spot that he’s been laying in wait for the last 3 1/2 weeks for someone to cross at this corner and quickly moves the pin to the correct spot. He’d really have you then.

It was already pretty much an accepted practice everywhere in Wyoming. I don’t think it’s gonna be a big deal. The sheriffs department and county attorneys office that tried to prosecute those four hunters got embarrassed on a national level.
I own a few quarter sections here in Kansas and I couldn’t tell you where a single pin on my land is. I don’t know anyone that really could unless you just recently had the land surveyed.

Don’t overthink it, man. Be honest about it, do your best to find the corner and cross right there.

 

[3forks]

well I guess there’s that… yeah. There’s probably about 1000 what if’s a guy could come up with.
While we’re throwing out hypothetical situations what if a landowner moves the corner pin to an incorrect spot. Then as soon as you crossed, he springs from his hiding spot that he’s been laying in wait for the last 3 1/2 weeks for someone to cross at this corner and quickly moves the pin to the correct spot. He’d really have you then.

It was already pretty much an accepted practice everywhere in Wyoming. I don’t think it’s gonna be a big deal. The sheriffs department and county attorneys office that tried to prosecute those four hunters got embarrassed on a national level.
I own a few quarter sections here in Kansas and I couldn’t tell you where a single pin on my land is. I don’t know anyone that really could unless you just recently had the land surveyed.

Don’t overthink it, man. Be honest about it, do your best to find the corner and cross right there.

Agreed.

Plus, if the landowner was a real jerk about it, and could show the game warden where I crossed illegally, he should also be able to show and prove where the corner is.

If the game warden issued me a ticket, so be it… but then I’d cross at the legal spot and go hunting.

 

[ClearCreek]

Agreed.

Plus, if the landowner was a real jerk about it, and could show the game warden where I crossed illegally, he should also be able to show and prove where the corner is.

If the game warden issued me a ticket, so be it… but then I’d cross at the legal spot and go hunting.

If you are hunting in Wyoming it will not be a game warden issueing you a ticket for corner crossing as corner crossing in Wyoming is not hunting tresspassing, it is criminal tresspassing and handled by the County Sheriff's office.

ClearCreek

 

[shader112]

What's to stop landowners from putting up a little section of corner fence 12' tall on the opposing corners of private? Pretty hard to cross that without climbing it