Wyoming corner crossing lawsuit

[Elknr1975]

Not quite that simple. Federal Public lands (USFS, BLM, USFW, Reclamation, ACOE, etc) are owned collectively by the citizens of the United States of America through(emphasis) the federal government and management by federal agences on behalf of American Citizens.

Plus 1

 

[Gutshot007]

Anyone one ever look at the history of how these lands were sold or started years ago. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look a at blm " checkerboard" map and see problems of public and private. It seems to really benefit the private like having twice the land but only owning/paying for half of it. Think about it. .what if the blm sold the land to another individual then neither side could use any of it without trespassing other than on the edges

 

[Gutshot007]

Check out randy newberg's podcast on this. Several hours long . Haven't listed to the attorneys yet

 

[WyoBowhunter21]

Check out randy newberg's podcast on this. Several hours long . Haven't listed to the attorneys yet

Randy did a great job with that one. It’s worth listening too. Their perspective is interesting and they have some ideas that seem pretty plausible. The scary thing is punitive damages if the court finds in the favor of the landowner. They talk about a case back east that the landowner was awarded $100k for someone crossing a private road of about 10 ft. While that’s different it’s interesting. Having seen this just about all my hunting life, it’s going to be good if this goes to the Supreme Court and they have to decide. We need a decision not at the district level but a state wide one. If we don’t, there will be more of these cases if these guys win. Just south of Casper there is a ranch that patrols the fence line and the corners. I used to hunt an area where a group of back east attorneys bought a couple thousand acres for hunting. They hired fence riders. These riders would shoot at the fence when the elk were about to cross into public. Somewhere I used to have a video. The game and fish couldn’t prove they were harassing the wildlife because it isn’t illegal to target shoot. It’s really sad but as Randy points out, landownership is changing. With that are a change in ideals. I think we are in the age of private land no access hunting.

 

[gigandet642016]

Being a Wyoming resident, and past access to our family ranch I am excited to see what this case brings. Currently the discussion keeps being turned down. Maybe this case will end up in the Supreme Court and in the favor of hunters. Corner crossing is access to public land.

100% agree that corner crossing is access to public land. they should start a program where they pay the landowner a 1 time payment if the move their fence over 2 feet in the corner so we can all enjoy the land that we all are entitle to. no respectable hunter wants to trespass or damage another's property. it sucks all this is going on because there are arguments to both sides and it eventually just drives a wedge between hunters and ranchers and that's where people start getting resentful. my personal opinion is that checkered lands should of had an easement in place long ago.

 

[Dos Perros]

So, anyone setting odds on if this exercise is more likely to be beneficial or harmful?

 

[Slugz]

So, anyone setting odds on if this exercise is more likely to be beneficial or harmful?

I think hard to say at this point. I do though like the traction the hunters have with their detailed statements, body cam evidence and common sense by the law enforcement caught on tape before citations were written.

 

[Dos Perros]

I think hard to say at this point. I do though like the traction the hunters have with their detailed statements, body cam evidence and common sense by the law enforcement caught on tape before citations were written.

They might get out of it. But if WY passes a new law, it will all be moot.

 

[chris_hanson]

everyone should be watching the implications of this outcome...staying tuned

 

[WyoBowhunter21]

So, anyone setting odds on if this exercise is more likely to be beneficial or harmful?

I agree with those mentioned above. It is too early to tell. In my opinion it’s going to be harmful no matter what. For those landowners that used to allow it, it could put a sour taste in their mouths. Land is being bought up in the thousands and not just a few acres anymore. There are many LLCs buying up hundreds of thousands of acres and just shutting it off to local hunters. Now those same hunters are trying to continue hunting the areas they know with some being corner crossing to get to “landlocked” public. If it prevails, we will see more hunters try this. Rightfully so, access to our public land whether by air space or a ladder should be allowed. If they fail, we have a detrimental effect in some areas. Sadly I have faced the facts the private land access or private to public will be mostly a no or come at a cost. I should also mention, my family grew up ranching near this area and had some of those checkerboard properties.

 

[NallaJ23]

Interesting story. Looking forward to the outcome of this case. It will have a profound impact either way it’s decided.

 

[muledeerchaser]

http://nationalaglawcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/assets/bibarticles/rosenthalgillon_fence.pdf

Muledeerchaser, thats quite the interesting read above above. You a lawyer ? and why haven't we heard of this before or did I miss it.

Thank you

Greetings,
I am not a lawyer, I worked for Boeing as an industrial engineer and then went to Dental School. I am retired now and at almost 68 years old my days in the great outdoors are limited…. I found this law on the web when I was researching resident/nonresident licease allocations , interesting no one brought it up,,hopefully the defense will use it…The BLM is a agency that really needs reform. Many of the ranches out West have leases that are guaranteed at extremely low rental rates, no one else can bid on the leases and some are over 70 years old…. The very least the people who hold the leases can do is to allow the public to access the BLM property via their own private property…. I personally think the nonresident/resident license allocation is most likely next to fall…. If you look at where most of this hunting occurs, it is on public lands, like National forests, National Bureau of Land Management and National Wilderness Areas. Although the federal government has given the right to manage wildlife within its borders to the States it needs to do so in an equitable manner. Wyoming is currently cuttng down the percentage of nonresidents that will be able to hunt trophy species such as moose, goat, sheep and etc. While this is great if you are a Wyoming resident this is bad news for the nonresident.. Of course you know nonresidents fund most of Wyoming’s Game and Fish budget… BUT nonresidents fund Wyomings TOTAL State Budget at about 30%.. One of the guiding principles of the Constitution is equal treatment under the law. The law that gave management of wildlife to the States has been modified by the Courts before, I am pretty sure it will be modified again…. Regards

 

[Cephalopodan]

I've been waiting for some resolution to this for years. I'm skeptical that anything is coming to a solution any time soon.

 

[Fordguy]

Greetings,
I am not a lawyer, I worked for Boeing as an industrial engineer and then went to Dental School. I am retired now and at almost 68 years old my days in the great outdoors are limited…. I found this law on the web when I was researching resident/nonresident licease allocations , interesting no one brought it up,,hopefully the defense will use it…The BLM is a agency that really needs reform. Many of the ranches out West have leases that are guaranteed at extremely low rental rates, no one else can bid on the leases and some are over 70 years old…. The very least the people who hold the leases can do is to allow the public to access the BLM property via their own private property…. I personally think the nonresident/resident license allocation is most likely next to fall…. If you look at where most of this hunting occurs, it is on public lands, like National forests, National Bureau of Land Management and National Wilderness Areas. Although the federal government has given the right to manage wildlife within its borders to the States it needs to do so in an equitable manner. Wyoming is currently cuttng down the percentage of nonresidents that will be able to hunt trophy species such as moose, goat, sheep and etc. While this is great if you are a Wyoming resident this is bad news for the nonresident.. Of course you know nonresidents fund most of Wyoming’s Game and Fish budget… BUT nonresidents fund Wyomings TOTAL State Budget at about 30%.. One of the guiding principles of the Constitution is equal treatment under the law. The law that gave management of wildlife to the States has been modified by the Courts before, I am pretty sure it will be modified again…. Regards

Not a lawyer either ( though I do deal with a lot of federal documents at work) but one of the key phrases that I notice in a lot of the writing on the rules of federal land management is that it must be "in the public interest". I've never seen anything that says it can be managed for the sole benefit of an adjacent landowner or even for the sole interest of residents of that state.

 

[BuzzH]

Been some action, including today.

Judge mulls delay in corner-crossing trial, rejects ‘gag order’ - WyoFile

Stipe says she won’t dismiss criminal trespass charges as ranch owner tries to return a separate civil suit from federal to state venue.

wyofile.com

 

[muledeerchaser]

Been some action, including today.

Judge mulls delay in corner-crossing trial, rejects ‘gag order’ - WyoFile

Stipe says she won’t dismiss criminal trespass charges as ranch owner tries to return a separate civil suit from federal to state venue.

wyofile.com

This is definitely a case that belongs in Federal Court….the case involves individuals from DIFFERENT STATES and INVOLVES FEDERAL LAND access….. but of course the rancher wants to keep it in Wyoming Courts where they can control the JUDGE….

 

[wyo2track]

Appears the landowner blinked first. From the article above it looks like Federal court scares the hell out of them. I wonder how many other wealthy or just big landowners that have this same property orientation with BLM lands have reached out to this guy about the civil case and asked him to drop it if possible. Leave the issue in limbo federally. Or is there no going back now on the civil charges for the private owner? I can't imagine ranch owners with the same issue are going to ignore this case. Some may welcome a decision either way, others may be cringing.

 

[BuzzH]

Another update.

A big shout out to the Reporter working this case, Angus Thuermer, honest reporting that has drawn a lot of attention to this case. I donate to wyofile and if we want honest reporting like this to continue, it wouldn't hurt to send them a few bucks.

Judge limits use of body-cam video in corner-crossing trial - WyoFile

Ranch owner Eshelman is on a witness list for two-day Carbon County criminal trespass trial involving Missouri hunters that starts Wednesday.

wyofile.com

 

[BuzzH]

Appears the landowner blinked first. From the article above it looks like Federal court scares the hell out of them. I wonder how many other wealthy or just big landowners that have this same property orientation with BLM lands have reached out to this guy about the civil case and asked him to drop it if possible. Leave the issue in limbo federally. Or is there no going back now on the civil charges for the private owner? I can't imagine ranch owners with the same issue are going to ignore this case. Some may welcome a decision either way, others may be cringing.

They could drop the case, to the best of my understanding.

 

[ReedB]

Weird Situation...