Wyoming 90/10 for elk

[jray5740]

Federal/Public land equals every opportunity for you to enjoy, as we all own it. Camp, hike, bike, watch wildlife, recreate to your hearts content. Its yours, you paid for it with your federal tax dollars.

State owned wildlife...equals no one is entitled to a tag period, especially if you dont live in that particular state. Residents of a particular state should have significant priority when it comes to hunting....period. Leftover tags should be for residents....period.

I believe WY is doing it right, even if it means I will never get a tag to hunt in Wyoming unless Im a resident there. Frankly.....every state everywhere needs to go to this model if we want an outdoor future.

 

[Laramie]

Federal/Public land equals every opportunity for you to enjoy, as we all own it. Camp, hike, bike, watch wildlife, recreate to your hearts content. Its yours, you paid for it with your federal tax dollars.

State owned wildlife...equals no one is entitled to a tag period, especially if you dont live in that particular state. Residents of a particular state should have significant priority when it comes to hunting....period. Leftover tags should be for residents....period.

I believe WY is doing it right, even if it means I will never get a tag to hunt in Wyoming unless Im a resident there. Frankly.....every state everywhere needs to go to this model if we want an outdoor future.

Says the guy living in a state with elk, deer, antelope etc... I don't disagree with your main points and think 90/10 makes sense. 90/5/5 however does not. I hope the residents fight hard against that and are willing to pony up some of the missing $ so the states can still effectively manage the herds.

 

[LostArra]

.

State owned wildlife...equals no one is entitled to a tag period, especially if you dont live in that particular state. Residents of a particular state should have significant priority when it comes to hunting....period. Leftover tags should be for residents....period.

Good point but this does include residents and as long as residents are unsuccessful in the draw they will see the 10% non-residents as the problem, not the growing resident pool with 90% of the tags. They could totally eliminate non-resident tags and there will still be unsuccessful and unhappy residents forgetting they are not entitled to a tag.

 

[hoff1ck]

Federal/Public land equals every opportunity for you to enjoy, as we all own it. Camp, hike, bike, watch wildlife, recreate to your hearts content. Its yours, you paid for it with your federal tax dollars.

State owned wildlife...equals no one is entitled to a tag period, especially if you dont live in that particular state. Residents of a particular state should have significant priority when it comes to hunting....period. Leftover tags should be for residents....period.

I believe WY is doing it right, even if it means I will never get a tag to hunt in Wyoming unless Im a resident there. Frankly.....every state everywhere needs to go to this model if we want an outdoor future.

Every state doing this will create an outdoor future for residents of said state, but continue to drastically cut overall opportunity for everyone else. The bigger issue is the outfitter set aside, which is asinine.

 

[Gutshot007]

I go to Wyoming to hunt elk, period ! I'm not there to pick berries or to birdwatch . Severely limit my ability to get a tag as a DIY non-resident my concern about the fate of federal lands ( your federal welfare hunting lease that the rest of the country pays for ) diminishes.

 

[Z Barebow]

Some posters need to understand the bulk of the residents are not your enemy. In fact we (NR's) need them to step up and oppose the terrible elements of the "grand compromise". Tossing around other issues such as the wilderness law is scope creep and detracts from the conversation currently going on within task force.

I am supportive of residents getting an increased share of LE tags. I am supportive of changing general tags to regions. BUT,,,,,,

The outfitter draw is poison for all. (Residents and NR's). Tag subsidies for outfitters will increase the amount of leasing and reduce the amount of land enrolled in HIA. (It is hard for HIA program to financially compete with subsidized private business) I have never hired an outfitter out west. Nor will I. Who needs a guide for antelope? If you can shoot a bleepin' prairie dog you can shoot an antelope! (And WYGOA wants 50% of those tags too)

Be respectful. Write the TF membership. Be concise, professional and respectful as you state your case. I know I will.

 

[FlyGuy]

This topic frustrates me.

Rarely is doing “what’s best for me right now” the right decision in almost any circumstance. We all know that. That’s not what you teach your kids. That’s not the kind of behavior you would tolerate from your friends or hunting partners.

WY residents that support this need to understand that NR are not your enemy. NR are not the source of the problem. This “solution” doesn’t solve anything. What it does do is turn your allies into adversaries, and that’s never a good move.

I really don’t understand why states do this. I mean, I do, but it’s stupid. I would love to see all western states go to the other extreme. Imagine if all states dedicated up to 30% of tags to NR? Since these NR tags are priced ~ 10x, that would be a HUGE source of revenue, and that money can be put towards programs that WILL have a meaningful impact on wildlife populations. It could do wonders to help with access initiatives, habitat restoration, etc etc. I know the feds don’t control the wildlife, but I sure wish the feds could/would incentivize states to offer more NR tags instead of less. IMO, everybody wins.

The thing is… out of state hunts are FUN! They are a great adventure. Sure, everyone wants to draw a tag right next to home, and hopefully you will most years. But what if you also had a tag in another state most years? Wouldn’t that be great! you just can’t beat a destination hunt in a unit you’ve never been to.

When NR come into another state and experience the joys and wonders it has to offer, then they feel connected to it. And that’s what we all need right now… to be on the same team.

If things continue down their current path of squeezing the NR out of tags in every western state, then I predict two major outcomes. # 1 is that a large amount of NR (who live in elk-less states) will give up trying. That may not hurt your feelings any or have any immediate effect. But that also means they will also no longer donate or support RMEF or BHA or any of the groups that need funding to make an impact. They won’t be your allies when you need them. The next time a ridiculously rich landowner pushes for something detrimental to your way of life, you won’t have the nations support. You’ll be on your own.

#2, while it may not happen overnight, there will be an influx on people moving to the state so that they can hunt as a resident. Ranches slowly get bought up and turned into subdivisions. The people encroach more on the land. More people/less habitat. The 10% of NR tags you gain from this change makes almost ZERO difference in your draw odds anyway, but what little gain there is will seem be eliminated by just a small influx of NR relocating there. It Doesn’t take that many people to move there to net that out to zero increase in draw odds, and in fact of more keep coming then your draw odds continue to fall.

now your problem isn’t any better-its worse! Way worse. You have the Same draw odds as before (or maybe even lower), you have significantly less revenue from NR tags coming in to help the programs, you have more housing/less habitat for the game animals, and you have far less support from NR on issues that matter to you when you need them. This isn’t the outcome you want.

We have to look at the long game here. People may argue with me about how low the population is in WY and how hard it is to live there. All true, but you know I’m not wrong. It won’t all happen in a year… but it will happen. Slowly. But by the time you actually see it it will be too late.

I hope Resident hunters in all states listen to what I’m saying. THE NR IS NOT YOUR ENEMY.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Overdrive]

The WYOGA has too much pull in decision making for the WYO F&G. Tag allocation should only be made policy by the WYO F&G.

I guide in Wyoming and the Outfitter I work for is not in favor of this garbage, they realized from the beginning of their application for an Outfitters license that WYOGA has to much power. We are in a LQ unit for Elk and on private land, could it benefit us, sure. But we're also DIY guys in other states and want to see equal opportunity to all hunters.

 

[Btaylor]

Federal/Public land equals every opportunity for you to enjoy, as we all own it. Camp, hike, bike, watch wildlife, recreate to your hearts content. Its yours, you paid for it with your federal tax dollars.

State owned wildlife...equals no one is entitled to a tag period, especially if you dont live in that particular state. Residents of a particular state should have significant priority when it comes to hunting....period. Leftover tags should be for residents....period.

I believe WY is doing it right, even if it means I will never get a tag to hunt in Wyoming unless Im a resident there. Frankly.....every state everywhere needs to go to this model if we want an outdoor future.

Some might argue that all of the resources on federally owned land are the property of all the people. Management of a species is an entirely different discussion than ownership. What Buzz and others work hard to convince people of is that management is ownership.

 

[Laramie]

Some might argue that all of the resources on federally owned land are the property of all the people. Management of a species is an entirely different discussion than ownership. What Buzz and others work hard to convince people of is that management is ownership.

So how well do you think people manage things that they don't own? Seriously, consider that. The argument about being entitled because the animals happens to walk across federal land is a non-starter. It is a pointless stance in this argument.

 

[Btaylor]

So how well do you think people manage things that they don't own?

Some do it very well, others suck at it completely. Let's say I own a piece of ground here in AR. I work hard to manage the property so that the habitat is the most diverse and highest quality I can get it too. Because it is properly managed, game species thrive on this ground but they also venture onto neighboring property. I do not own nor have any right to claim those animals. If that neighboring property happens to be public land then all who have a right to use that land have a right for the opportunity to take that animal. Assuming they have the requisite license to do so.

 

[TreeWalking]

As I watch Yellowstone roads collapse and NM burn up I think, well, is quite clear the residents of those states are quite proud of defending increases in the resident allotment of wildlife so presumably those same level-headed, proud folks want to deal with the natural disasters mostly on their own as well. Good on them.

 

[Steve O]

This topic frustrates me.

Rarely is doing “what’s best for me right now” the right decision in almost any circumstance. We all know that. That’s not what you teach your kids. That’s not the kind of behavior you would tolerate from your friends or hunting partners.

WY residents that support this need to understand that NR are not your enemy. NR are not the source of the problem. This “solution” doesn’t solve anything. What it does do is turn your allies into adversaries, and that’s never a good move.

I really don’t understand why states do this. I mean, I do, but it’s stupid. I would love to see all western states go to the other extreme. Imagine if all states dedicated up to 30% of tags to NR? Since these NR tags are priced ~ 10x, that would be a HUGE source of revenue, and that money can be put towards programs that WILL have a meaningful impact on wildlife populations. It could do wonders to help with access initiatives, habitat restoration, etc etc. I know the feds don’t control the wildlife, but I sure wish the feds could/would incentivize states to offer more NR tags instead of less. IMO, everybody wins.

The thing is… out of state hunts are FUN! They are a great adventure. Sure, everyone wants to draw a tag right next to home, and hopefully you will most years. But what if you also had a tag in another state most years? Wouldn’t that be great! you just can’t beat a destination hunt in a unit you’ve never been to.

When NR come into another state and experience the joys and wonders it has to offer, then they feel connected to it. And that’s what we all need right now… to be on the same team.

If things continue down their current path of squeezing the NR out of tags in every western state, then I predict two major outcomes. # 1 is that a large amount of NR (who live in elk-less states) will give up trying. That may not hurt your feelings any or have any immediate effect. But that also means they will also no longer donate or support RMEF or BHA or any of the groups that need funding to make an impact. They won’t be your allies when you need them. The next time a ridiculously rich landowner pushes for something detrimental to your way of life, you won’t have the nations support. You’ll be on your own.

#2, while it may not happen overnight, there will be an influx on people moving to the state so that they can hunt as a resident. Ranches slowly get bought up and turned into subdivisions. The people encroach more on the land. More people/less habitat. The 10% of NR tags you gain from this change makes almost ZERO difference in your draw odds anyway, but what little gain there is will seem be eliminated by just a small influx of NR relocating there. It Doesn’t take that many people to move there to net that out to zero increase in draw odds, and in fact of more keep coming then your draw odds continue to fall.

now your problem isn’t any better-its worse! Way worse. You have the Same draw odds as before (or maybe even lower), you have significantly less revenue from NR tags coming in to help the programs, you have more housing/less habitat for the game animals, and you have far less support from NR on issues that matter to you when you need them. This isn’t the outcome you want.

We have to look at the long game here. People may argue with me about how low the population is in WY and how hard it is to live there. All true, but you know I’m not wrong. It won’t all happen in a year… but it will happen. Slowly. But by the time you actually see it it will be too late.

I hope Resident hunters in all states listen to what I’m saying. THE NR IS NOT YOUR ENEMY.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Amen.

Best synopsis I’ve ever seen on these issues.

 

[jray5740]

Some might argue that all of the resources on federally owned land are the property of all the people. Management of a species is an entirely different discussion than ownership. What Buzz and others work hard to convince people of is that management is ownership.

Some would argue that…but they would be mistaken. For years I have watched this forum and others whine about how much $$$ CPW, or other state agencies make on out of state hunters or hunters in general.

They dont complain that the federal government is making money on those tags…they complain the state is. Why? Because the state owns the wildlife. If you need more support call any wildlife agency and ask. Gov owns land, state owns wildlife.

So…ipso facto the people of that STATE own the wildlife in that STATE.

 

[Rifleman86]

Some might argue that all of the resources on federally owned land are the property of all the people. Management of a species is an entirely different discussion than ownership. What Buzz and others work hard to convince people of is that management is ownership.

Yeah, the fact that many states offer landowner tags certainly gives credence to the fact that the line delineating land ownership and wildlife ownership is sometimes a fuzzy one.

For example to hunt the land I own in Ohio I don’t have to purchase a deer tag or even a license. It’s been that way for as long as I’ve hunted.

Furthermore this blanket statement that “states manage wildlife… The feds have no say, that’s it, end of discussion, doesn’t matter who owns the land.” Always makes me go…

If that’s the case, under what authority does the Federal government enforce the endangered species act? Why can’t Wyoming have their Grizzly season?

Again I’m not an attorney, nor an expert in any of this, but it’s stuff I’ve pondered. The landowner tag issue is something that could easily cut both ways.

Either way I don’t want to distract this thread. I do plan on contacting all members of the task force.

I’m simply going to point out that our past successes managing wildlife in this country were founded on the NA model, and that we should look to those principles as we move forward. Principle among them is that wildlife should be managed for everyone. We have to think about what we want wildlife and hunting to look like for future generations, not just us.

I recommend everyone else do the same. Keep it respectful, and to the point.

 

[jray5740]

As I watch Yellowstone roads collapse and NM burn up I think, well, is quite clear the residents of those states are quite proud of defending increases in the resident allotment of wildlife so presumably those same level-headed, proud folks want to deal with the natural disasters mostly on their own as well. Good on them.

Federal lands and national parks are all of ours, so yes inherietly many states join the effort to fight the fire protect the broad spectrum of ownership.

Many states don’t join the effort to ensure pronghorn in WY are doing well. WY fights that battle and uses state resources to do so.

 

[Gutshot007]

Amen.

Best synopsis I’ve ever seen on these issues.

2nd amen to that. Non-residents enemy on tags and allies on access/ conservation issues

 

[Indian Summer]

Federal/Public land equals every opportunity for you to enjoy, as we all own it. Camp, hike, bike, watch wildlife, recreate to your hearts content. Its yours, you paid for it with your federal tax dollars.

State owned wildlife...equals no one is entitled to a tag period, especially if you dont live in that particular state. Residents of a particular state should have significant priority when it comes to hunting....period. Leftover tags should be for residents....period.

I believe WY is doing it right, even if it means I will never get a tag to hunt in Wyoming unless Im a resident there. Frankly.....every state everywhere needs to go to this model if we want an outdoor future.

Dude… we pay the fkn bills! We pretty much fund Wyoming Fish and Game. And what happened to do unto others as you would have done unto you. One word: Greed

 

[Laramie]

Some do it very well, others suck at it completely. Let's say I own a piece of ground here in AR. I work hard to manage the property so that the habitat is the most diverse and highest quality I can get it too. Because it is properly managed, game species thrive on this ground but they also venture onto neighboring property. I do not own nor have any right to claim those animals. If that neighboring property happens to be public land then all who have a right to use that land have a right for the opportunity to take that animal. Assuming they have the requisite license to do so.

Re-read my statement... Things they Don't own. You do a great job with your land because you own it. You do the best you can because you know you will reap the benefits. The same goes for states and wildlife. Sure, your neighbor might shoot a couple of your deer but you receive the most benefit- just like elk and deer crossing the border from Wyoming to Colorado.

I understand your point of view just like I believe you understand mine. However I don't believe we will agree. Your line of thinking isn't going anywhere, right or wrong. The states will continue to own the wildlife. That is a well established law that isn't changing. I'm simply trying to steer the conversation in other, more productive directions that don't involve selling our federal lands or boycotting western states. There can be solid compromise if we keep level heads.

 

[Scoot]

I guide in Wyoming and the Outfitter I work for is not in favor of this garbage...

Thanks for the post and perspective, Overdrive. I'd be curious to know what percentage of outfitters in WY are in favor of this. I'd also love to know what percentage of good outfitters are in favor of it vs. crappy ones. My guess is that the outfitters who do a good job and are in demand (because they are good at what they do) are largely not in favor of it. The rest, they're just happy taking the welfare. That's my guess anyway.

IMO the good outfitters should be outraged at this! The state/WYOGA wants those who aren't very good at the work they do, the same work the good outfitters do, to be rewarded more on par with those who work hard and do a good job. Good outfitters should be rewarded with returning customers, word of mouth advertising, and plenty of business while crappy ones should find another way to make a living where they can actually be successful without being dependent up welfare.

...and what Overdrive said about the WYOGA couldn't be more true! It's a very similar situation in MT right now too. Unless residents in these states speak up it's going to get ugly. I certainly don't want to quit going to MT and WY to hunt, but I'm not paying some welfare recipient who isn't very good at what he does to take me out and chase elk or mulies.