Wyo Special Apps are down in #’s

[RunNGunSC]

You can dislike the extreme price on principle without personal motivation. I can pay to cut the line. I just don’t think that type of option supports the North American model. Random with high participation is probably the best model, despite generating the longest odds. Charge everyone the same price. Then use that money for wildlife management and public lands.

 

[Jaquomo]

The pricing for tags should be in line with the costs to maintain the resource. No more, no less.

The pricing for tags is based on willingness to pay. WY is testing that threshold with the Special draw this year. Elk are a limited resource "owned" and managed by the state. The costs to run a government agency far exceed the cost to maintain the resource (which in the case of elk, basically comes down to paying game damage and doing a flyover-count on the winter range). States "should" charge whatever they want to charge nonresidents, and anyone who doesn't like it can either hunt somewhere else or hunt locally for cheap. Or come to Colorado and hunt the free-for-all.

 

[Dos Perros]

The pricing for tags is based on willingness to pay. WY is testing that threshold with the Special draw this year. Elk are a limited resource "owned" and managed by the state. The costs to run a government agency far exceed the cost to maintain the resource (which in the case of elk, basically comes down to paying game damage and doing a flyover-count on the winter range). States "should" charge whatever they want to charge nonresidents, and anyone who doesn't like it can either hunt somewhere else or hunt locally for cheap. Or come to Colorado and hunt the free-for-all.

I was lumping in the agency overhead when I said “cost to maintain the resource.”

Governments aren’t typically profit centers.

 

[Dos Perros]

I don’t want to see what hunting in this country looks like when only the elite can afford to pay for it.

 

[Lil-Rokslider]

If I were to draw in the random this year, because my odds were improved by jumping into the special draw, I would argue that it saved me money in the long run. Otherwise I'd be waiting many years to draw my particular tag with points, or much lower random odds in the regular draw.

 

[Wyo_hntr]

I don’t want to see what hunting in this country looks like when only the elite can afford to pay for it.

I feel the same way, but you can still get an elk tag in Wyoming for 288 bucks. I think that is fairly reasonable.

Also Wyoming gets harped on, yet the cheapest option in NM is over 500.00, Arizona is over 600.00. Yes WY has been generous in tag allocations and cost for a long time, maybe that's why everyone complains so much about Wyoming, as if it's the only state that requires you to pay money for an elk tag. It's not.

I have hunted in ID, NE, WY, NM, and TX. When hunting outside my state of residency I've never considered complaining about the cost. Why? Because it's a privilege. I suppose I could raise hell because Oklahoma doesn't allow me to hunt quail in February on western state gma's. But I don't, because it's their house, their rules. I just don't get the outrage.

 

[Chad E]

My sentiments exactly. Price is an indicator of how valuable something is. I wish they would just hold a Dutch auction for all the tags and sell them to the people willing to pay the most. You have the rest of the year to work a bit more and earn the money it requires.

I am truly thankful the North America model of conservation took hold in this country vs the model you describe. Hunting would be enjoyed by a few rich folks much like it is in other countries if we implemented your idea.

Look at the price of auction tags, landowner tags etc. This concept of " value" being used to set the price sends us down a pretty ugly path in my opinion.

 

[Jaquomo]

I don’t want to see what hunting in this country looks like when only the elite can afford to pay for it.

You are referring to nonresident western hunting when you say "hunting", I assume? Anyone can hunt their home state for not much more than the cost of a Starbucks and a bag of chips.

 

[Chad E]

You are referring to nonresident western hunting when you say "hunting", I assume? Anyone can hunt their home state for not much more than the cost of a Starbucks and a bag of chips.

While your not wrong on this premise I urge you to consider the overall picture of what's going on with anti hunting politics in the west right now....like for instance Colorado.
I don't live in Colorado but I've hunted there. I've done what I can from afar to support hunting in Colorado against ballot box biology to ban cougar hunting.
I've done the same with grizzly issues, wolves, corner crossing etc.
I don't think simply saying stay home bodes well for hunting in the long run. I assure you there's plenty of nonresident anti hunters financing and advocating for the ban in Colorado. Colorado hunters need the same support from the hunting side. Don't for a second think this type of attack isn't coming for wyoming once they pick off the easier states.

 

[Flyjunky]

I don’t want to see what hunting in this country looks like when only the elite can afford to pay for it.

Anyone who thinks this isn't where hunting is going is crazy. It might be affordable right now but the sheer greed of those making the decisions in this country...hunting will not be immune.

Although, the N vs NR, anti's, whining between hunters, etc will probably take care of hunting before high prices take its toll.

 

[Flyjunky]

You are referring to nonresident western hunting when you say "hunting", I assume? Anyone can hunt their home state for not much more than the cost of a Starbucks and a bag of chips.

So you're saying that resident prices will just stay the same if nr hunters stop hunting your state in the numbers they do now?

 

[Jethro]

So you're saying that resident prices will just stay the same if nr hunters stop hunting your state in the numbers they do now?

He's saying that almost everyone has affordable hunting options closer to home.

 

[bridgerbenson]

I always come to the same conclusion when reading through all this stuff. “Why in the hell have I not moved out there yet?”


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[sasquatch]

I don’t want to see what hunting in this country looks like when only the elite can afford to pay for it.

We are far far away from anything like this. Can it happen? Sure anything can.

However, when I look around I see no shortage of money being spent. People have so much more money, or credit to spend, than they had just 20 years ago it’s insane. If going elk hunting cost 2k for a tag and that’s what someone wants to do, it’s easily achievable. I would like to see the finances of the average person making all these claims that hunting is a rich man’s sport etc etc.

I bet a large portion piss money away like it’s going out of style on other things. Hell, just the smoking or dipping a lot do would pay for a hunt.

It’s all about priorities. And if Wyoming is too expensive there’s several other options. Even in Wyoming there’s a cheaper draw option for people, so I don’t see or understand the complaints. It seems like a lot of jealousy to me,

“it’s unfair he gets to put in a different draw pool and have better odds than me”

Id gladly pay more hoping it secures up the resource, and maybe helps hold on to or acquire more huntable acres. The alternative may be us all watching it disappear through lack of animals or land to hunt, which to me is how hunting will become a rich man sport if it does indeed happen one day.


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[Dos Perros]

It’s the attitudes shared here that are surprising to me. Those that think that states should charge NR’s what the market will bear. This is antithetical to the North American model, IMO. And it’s these attitudes that would enable that radical change that they in the same breath say is impossible.

I am well off. Barring disaster I will always be able to afford NR hunting wherever I want to go. And we will retire in Wyoming. So I’m not worried about myself. I’m worried about us as a whole.

 

[Jaquomo]

So you're saying that resident prices will just stay the same if nr hunters stop hunting your state in the numbers they do now?

Nope. Because NR hunters won't stop hunting western states. There will always be more demand than supply, even if prices continue to rise. But what I said was that nobody is making anyone come to the west to hunt, when they can stay home and hunt for cheap.

 

[Wyo_hntr]

Nope. Because NR hunters won't stop hunting western states. There will always be more demand than supply, even if prices continue to rise. But what I said was that nobody is making anyone come to the west to hunt, when they can stay home and hunt for cheap.

Heck they can still hunt Wyoming for cheap. It's just not the hunt they can brag about.

 

[Jaquomo]

While your not wrong on this premise I urge you to consider the overall picture of what's going on with anti hunting politics in the west right now....like for instance Colorado.
I don't live in Colorado but I've hunted there. I've done what I can from afar to support hunting in Colorado against ballot box biology to ban cougar hunting.
I've done the same with grizzly issues, wolves, corner crossing etc.
I don't think simply saying stay home bodes well for hunting in the long run. I assure you there's plenty of nonresident anti hunters financing and advocating for the ban in Colorado. Colorado hunters need the same support from the hunting side. Don't for a second think this type of attack isn't coming for wyoming once they pick off the easier states.

I've lived in CO my whole life, and absolutely understand the politics. I've been involved in the bear initiative, trapping, wolves, and now this. But the difference is, nonresidents don't vote on our ballot initiatives, don't vote for our Leftist politicians, don't pay our property taxes, don't contribute to the campaigns to fight ballot box biology in any meaningful amounts. The millions of $ to fund the anti-hunting campaigns here comes from the coasts. California $ for the wolves, D.C. and California for this lion initiative. We need and appreciate the support from NR hunters, but $10 contributions here and $20 there aren't a drop in the bucket compared to the millions donated by NR anti hunters.

My point is that nonresidents have always complained about the cost of hunting western big game, "rich man's sport", etc.. but they have the choice to hunt at home, and multiple non-western states for cheap. Meanwhile, the demand for NR tags continues to outpace the supply, no matter how much they cost.

Let's revisit this topic when WY NR general elk tags can be had with no PPs, when CO units are undersubscribed every year, when Idaho NR tags don't sell out in a few hours. I'm betting western states could double NR elk license fees and they would still be oversubscribed.

 

[LostArra]

I'm betting western states could double NR elk license fees and they would still be oversubscribed.

Agree because there is something special about hunting elk in the mountains. For me antlers aren't important. Hunting every year is important.

Wyo may be reaching the ceiling for Special deer and antelope. There could not have been a straight face in the room when they put $1200 on an antelope tag.

 

[BuckeyeRifleman]

It’s the attitudes shared here that are surprising to me. Those that think that states should charge NR’s what the market will bear. This is antithetical to the North American model, IMO. And it’s these attitudes that would enable that radical change that they in the same breath say is impossible.

I am well off. Barring disaster I will always be able to afford NR hunting wherever I want to go. And we will retire in Wyoming. So I’m not worried about myself. I’m worried about us as a whole.

Same exact boat here.

In the 11 years until I can retire and move, I have no doubt I will be able to hunt elk every year as a nonresident. I might not hunt bulls every year, but I’ll hunt elk.

But I doubt my son will be able to, either from cost or tag availability if he is a nonresident.

Nobody here is asking for $20 OTC nonresident elk tags. But the current trend is worrisome if you have and understanding and appreciation for the North American model.

Nonresident tags should cost more, and there should be more opportunity for residents vs nonresidents. But things should be priced so that your average middle class guy supporting a family can afford the tag if he makes it a priority. Above about $1200 right now is where I see that line.

Everyone posting in this thread has lived the dream of loading up the truck and heading to the mountains to chase some incredible animals. Those experiences are what makes life worthwhile. Those experiences also keep the public in tune with why conserving wildlife and public lands are important.

If we price the average person out of the game, or reduce tag availability too much, I don’t think any of us will like the 2nd or 3rd order effects in a few decades.