WY Corner crossing update

Why would any hunter who went through the effort to find a marker want to post its location for others who didn't put in the work? Once it is easy guys it won't be worth knowing...
 
Why would any hunter who went through the effort to find a marker want to post its location for others who didn't put in the work? Once it is easy guys it won't be worth knowing...

^^^This 100%. Make hunting hard again.
 
After this ruling, I think law enforcement will be reluctant to get involved in corner crossing disputes unless there is a flagrant violation with strong evidence to support it. Before this ruling for these hunters the Sheriff initially didn't want to give the hunters a citation in the 1st place. It wasn't until after Eshelman used his influence on the county attorney and she instructed the Sheriff to issue the citations. They didn't want to cite the hunters then, and probaly much less so now.
 
After this ruling, I think law enforcement will be reluctant to get involved in corner crossing disputes unless there is a flagrant violation with strong evidence to support it. Before this ruling for these hunters the Sheriff initially didn't want to give the hunters a citation in the 1st place. It wasn't until after Eshelman used his influence on the county attorney and she instructed the Sheriff to issue the citations. They didn't want to cite the hunters then, and probaly much less so now.
I think the opposite will be true. Leos finally have clarity and the technology is easy to use so they will hold people accountable who don't do it right.
 
I think the opposite will be true. Leos finally have clarity and the technology is easy to use so they will hold people accountable who don't do it right.
It'll be interesting to see which of us is right and either way I'm happy about this ruling and mystified it took this long to get here. Before the ruling, if you were in one of the adjoining public sections, you either crossed a private boundary or crossed at a corner, both of which were considered tresspassing. Now if you're on the public adjoining section, you may have crossed at or near a corner, which is fine. I don't see investigating these sorts of matters will be a high priority for law enforcement. From a civil, landowner standpoint, I don't think you'd ever be able to recoup the legal costs and time to sue people over this.
 
It'll be interesting to see which of us is right and either way I'm happy about this ruling and mystified it took this long to get here. Before the ruling, if you were in one of the adjoinging public sections, you either crossed a private boundary or crossed at a corner, both of which were considered tresspassing. Now if you're on the public adjoining section, you may have crossed at or near a corner, which is fine. I don't see investigating these sorts of matters will be a high priority for law enforcement. From a civil, landowner standpoint, I don't think you'd ever be able to recoup the legal costs and time to sue people over this.
I'd tend to agree with ben. If I were called to this type of complaint and the landowner couldn't show me the corner monument with clear evidence of a trespassing violation, I'd be telling him it was a civil matter. Just an assumption, but I doubt many landowners could actually find the corner marker, if one even exists at all.
 
Why would any hunter who went through the effort to find a marker want to post its location for others who didn't put in the work? Once it is easy guys it won't be worth knowing...
You think people would have learned their lesson already, but everyone wants to be a hunting hero. Blows my mind, put in some of your own damn effort and do chit on your own instead of relying on the hardwork of other people or looking for some cheat code.

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I talked to a BLM Geodetic Surveyor in Wyoming. He said the majority of their records are from the 1880s!!! And the measurements were made with chains! So, there are no definitive corner coordinates available and the precision of the surveys is FAR from precise. Good luck finding corner monuments!! The surveyor did WARN me extensively about Wyoming’s extremely strict and punitive trespassing laws. He said the BLM MUST get permission from the property owner before setting foot on any private land to perform surveys. He said that there are generally fences on property lines, and that ONX is going to be as precise as you can get. So, tread very very carefully, better to figure this out, before hunting. Bill


 
I talked to a BLM Geodetic Surveyor in Wyoming. He said the majority of their records are from the 1880s!!! And the measurements were made with chains! So, there are no definitive corner coordinates available and the precision of the surveys is FAR from precise. Good luck finding corner monuments!! The surveyor did WARN me extensively about Wyoming’s extremely strict and punitive trespassing laws. He said the BLM MUST get permission from the property owner before setting foot on any private land to perform surveys. He said that there are generally fences on property lines, and that ONX is going to be as precise as you can get. So, tread very very carefully, better to figure this out, before hunting. Bill


If that's the case then how can they prove trespassing?
 
If that's the case then how can they prove trespassing?
Agreed. Without a formal corner pin, a gps and mapping software (onx, BaseMap,etc) is going to have to be the standard bearer. Landowner Joe will need more than “that’s always been where we assumed the corner was” to get someone trespassed.
 
I'm guessing it's no different in Wyoming (or elsewhere), but Montana game wardens (and I think most deputies) use Onyx in determining if someone is on private land when a landowner calls in a trespass or hunting w/o permission case.

I said it earlier, but any county attorney who takes on a corner crossing case where a landowner believes it wasn't legal, but Onyx shows otherwise—is a county attorney that doesn't mind losing cases.
 
If that's the case then how can they prove trespassing?
If there are no fences it would be incredibly difficult. I’d get something in writing from Game and Fish, and local Sheriff on what they would consider an offense. If there was an issue in the field it “looks like” everyone would side with the property owner at least in Wyoming. It “looks like” you are at the mercy of the property owner. I’m being overly cautious. Bill
 
Agreed. Without a formal corner pin, a gps and mapping software (onx, BaseMap,etc) is going to have to be the standard bearer. Landowner Joe will need more than “that’s always been where we assumed the corner was” to get someone trespassed.
This is what I was asking about in the original thread as the case went to court.

If the landowner doesn’t know where their property boundary is exactly, how do we/they know when trespassing would occur. For all we know their property boundary might be off, biased towards the public land side for instance.

It always seemed to me that unless their property has been actually surveyed there should be an acceptable margin of error around corners.
 
This is what I was asking about in the original thread as the case went to court.

If the landowner doesn’t know where their property boundary is exactly, how do we/they know when trespassing would occur. For all we know their property boundary might be off, biased towards the public land side for instance.

It always seemed to me that unless their property has been actually surveyed there should be an acceptable margin of error around corners.
I would think any reasonable landowner, Hunter, game warden, or deputy there will be. It’s a few nut jobs you run into that want to try to be hard asses.
Go hunt and Onx maps is what most LE and game wardens use to work trespassing cases in Kansas.
 
From the wyo file, good read.

Jim Magagna, executive vice president of the Wyoming Stock Growers Association
“I think there’s real concern … issues,” Magagna said. “All these fence lines and corners are not correct.”

If I had to make a bet, the fence lines and corner posts that all of a sudden aren’t correct are erroring to benefit the private property owner.
 
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