Would you put shot distance limits on big game?

[Laramie]

No way to enforce max distances. The only way to shorten average shots and lower hunter success rates is through equipment restrictions. I would support equipment restrictions, especially for mule deer and antelope.

 

[taskswap]

Also, not to be "that guy" but the comment about predators doesn't sit right with me. Whether I plan to take one out or not, just because "dead predator = good predator" doesn't mean I want to gut-shot one as say "yep, job done". Ethics don't just apply to game animals with "value."

 

[S.Clancy]

I think we confuse ethics and fair chase. Ethically, it doesn't matter how far people shoot because I am not going to judge their capabilities unless I am around them alot. I think there is a fair chase argument when it comes long range tho, the ability of an animal to detect the shooter (by sight, smell or hearing), etc.

Now, as a thought experiment, what do I think would be effective methods to limit range and basically maintain current technology:

1. Rifle weight - I think we could limit the max rifle weight (ID already does it, something like 16 lbs?). Theoretically, you could push this really low, say 7-8 lbs scoped max rifle weight. It's just plain harder to shoot a light rifle than a heavy one, everything else being equal.

2. Caliber Maximums - You would never convince agencies to do this, but you could limit all big game hunting to a max caliber of .244 (Until Avery comes out with the 6UM Ultra in a 50 BMG case and a 180 grain 6mm bullet with a 1-2 Twist...)

Outside of those 2 I don't really know how you would mandate range with current tech other than some feel good idiotic legislation that just pisses everyone off.

I am all for increasing weapon restricted seasons (black powder muzzy, primitive archery, etc.). I'm excited to see what happens in UT with the units that went this way.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Why do people want more government regulation in their life?

 

[fatlander]

This is a fair chase question as it pertains to technology question more than anything else.

There is no way to limit shot distance in a meaningful way beyond limiting the technology we allow hunters to legal utilize in the field. Here’s a simple list I just pulled out of the sky that would greatly limit the distances the vast majority of people are pushing:

Archery: vertical bows for able bodied people, fixed sights - no drivers/sliders and no garmins

Muzzleloader: open sight only

Rifle: No turrets, no bluetooth scopes, no illuminated reticle, nothing more than a standard duplex or single post

Shotguns: no TSS, no red dots

The people who are proficient enough to make sound judgement and shots at extreme distances will still be fine without all that stuff. They’ll adapt and be proficient within the limits of what we deem fair chase. The people that had no business shooting at those ranges will no longer think because they bought a 500 dollar sight or 1500 dollar scope that they can shoot stuff in different zip codes because of a YouTube video.


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[WeiserBucks]

Rifle: No turrets

No exposed turrets? I hear this mentioned in all of these threads. Every scope is adjustable for windage and elevation.

 

[fatlander]

No exposed turrets? I hear this mentioned in all of these threads. Every scope is adjustable for windage and elevation.

Yes, only capped turrets. Exposed variable turrets are a huge part of the problem.


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[WeiserBucks]

Yes, only capped turrets. Exposed variable turrets are a huge part of the problem.


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Cap can be removed in seconds. Not trying to be argumentative just pointing out a simple work around that won't be considered by those making the restrictions. As long as scopes are allowed, they'll be adjustable with or without exposed turrets.

 

[fatlander]

Cap can be removed in seconds. Not trying to be argumentative just pointing out a simple work around that won't be considered by those making the restrictions. As long as scopes are allowed, they'll be adjustable with or without exposed turrets.

It’s removing the easy button. If someone wants to break the law, they’re going to break the law.

Before variable turrets became popular, I knew not a single person that ever dreamed of dialing a scope to shoot an animal. You sighted the rifle in somewhere between 1 and 200 yards, knew you’re holdover to 300ish. If it was further than that, oh well the animal won.


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[houghton_hunter]

No way to enforce max distances. The only way to shorten average shots and lower hunter success rates is through equipment restrictions. I would support equipment restrictions, especially for mule deer and antelope.

A few folks have mentioned this, and I agree, equipment restrictions (could include capped turrets, but as others have pointed out there are work arounds), or shortened seasons for rifle (though you would probably need equipment restrictions as well since folks will get desperate and take extra long shots) are probably more practical. Trying to regulate distance itself seems unworkable.

 

[Schmo]

Those of you that would be in agreement with a rule like this need to stop and think.

Distance rules are in no way a state’s business. Every shooter is different, and conditions are different. Remember, when you give up freedoms and liberties, you very rarely get them back. I don’t need a government telling me what distance I’m capable of. I can figure that out on my own.

 

[xsn10s]

Why do people want more government regulation in their life?

Might as well move to Europe if you want more government intrusion. I'm with you on this. No max range law or turret restrictions. Silly to even consider it.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Those of you that would be in agreement with a rule like this need to stop and think.

Distance rules are in no way a state’s business. Every shooter is different, and conditions are different. Remember, when you give up freedoms and liberties, you very rarely get them back. I don’t need a government telling me what distance I’m capable of. I can figure that out on my own.

Amen brother. I'll never understand why people want everything regulated to their standards. Follow the current regs and hold yourself to your own standards and quit trying to regulate everyone else.

 

[fatlander]

Those of you that would be in agreement with a rule like this need to stop and think.

Distance rules are in no way a state’s business. Every shooter is different, and conditions are different. Remember, when you give up freedoms and liberties, you very rarely get them back. I don’t need a government telling me what distance I’m capable of. I can figure that out on my own.

Agree with this 100%. The equipment is what we need a reckoning with.

Why don’t we hunt with punt guns anymore? Bueller? Anyone?


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[WeiserBucks]

Agree with this 100%. The equipment is what we need a reckoning with.

A blanket statement on equipment or certain units/seasons/dates?

 

[fatlander]

A blanket statement on equipment or certain units/seasons/dates?

By the logic in this thread, we should be able to use punt guns whenever and where ever shotguns are permitted


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[WeiserBucks]

By the logic in this thread, we should be able to use punt guns whenever and where ever shotguns are permitted


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Perhaps I misunderstood your post earlier, I was curious about your statement about equipment regulations. Punt guns have been regulated for generations.

 

[fatlander]

Perhaps I misunderstood your post earlier, I was curious about your statement about equipment regulations. Punt guns have been regulated for generations.

At one point they weren’t. Why did they become regulated?

Because they were too effective at killing and wounding waterfowl, leading to negative impacts on the grander scale.

How is modern compound, rifle, or shotgun technology different?

60+ yard archery shots are normal
500+ yard rifle shots are normal
60+ yard shotgun kills are normal

They weren’t a few decades ago.


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[Drenalin]

Yes, only capped turrets. Exposed variable turrets are a huge part of the problem.


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Which problem exactly would even begin to be solved by decreasing the ability of hunters to place rounds accurately?

 

[WeiserBucks]

At one point they weren’t. Why did they become regulated?

Because they were too effective at killing and wounding waterfowl, leading to negative impacts on the grander scale.

How is modern compound, rifle, or shotgun technology different?

60+ yard archery shots are normal
500+ yard rifle shots are normal
60+ yard shotgun kills are normal

They weren’t a few decades ago.


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I guess I'll start caring when we develop big game tech that kills or wounds hundreds of animals with one shot. Punt gun use for commercial hunting is a poor reference in this discussion in my opinion.