Would you put shot distance limits on big game?

[mt terry d]

Unenforceable, yes. I agree. But, why is it stupid?

As stated above.
Put another way: One size/distance/weapon doesn't fit all.
And there's no way to accurately test one's ability (skill, emotional state, etc)
in every possible hunting situation.
And any law that's unenforceable is stupid.
That makes the whole premise *stupid.

*Do not infer this means I think you're stupid.

 

[WeiserBucks]

Unenforceable, yes. I agree. But, why is it stupid?

Because not everyone is the same. Should we ban backpack hunting because some guys are killing/wounding animals that way? Maybe we should make it illegal to to approach game from downwind?

 

[bowrunner81]

Because not everyone is the same. Should we ban backpack hunting because some guys are killing/wounding animals that way? Maybe we should make it illegal to to approach game from downwind?

When did I say it had to be a one size fits all approach? Also, this is not something I am pursuing. Just a topic for discussion.

 

[WeiserBucks]

When did I say it had to be a one size fits all approach?

Regulations are a blanket, one size fits all.

 

[fatlander]

A key difference with the punt guns, is that they were used for commercial hunting, and the mass killing that market forces rewarded. Banning modern guns and features used for single-animal tags just isn't the same thing. Add in that someone might get that tag only once every 5 years here in Nevada, people have a number of reasons to want to make the best of their rare hunts, and ensuring they have the most accurate rifle they can afford is one part of that.

But here's the crux of the discussion: shooter capabilities are far less than the capabilities of the equipment they're carrying. Most hunters are probably 3-5 MOA shooters in field realities, while a $500 Ruger American is a 1MOA gun.

The problem isn't the guns - it's the shooters making unethical shot decisions.

More often than not, those guys don't want to make unethical shot decisions - their shot decisions are just so poorly informed that they're unintentionally unethical.

The solution is awareness.

How much of this long range craze is driven by the modern day market hunter influencer? The answer certainly isn’t zero.

I don’t disagree that people are the problem. The equipment of today gives too many people the false sense that they can and should take shots they shouldn’t. 2 decades ago, we heard of none of this. Now it’s everywhere. Guys that 3-5 MOA shooters are still deadly at 100-200 yards, thanks for kind of proving my point. The difference now is those 3-5 moa guys are lobbing 500+ yards bombs because an industry pushes them to buy gear and fill tags at all costs.


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[Jordan Smith]

The tech we have right now is a result of modern day market hunting.

One guy wounding hundreds of animals with 1 shot vs 100 guys wounding a single animal because they’re out kicking their coverage is still 100 animals wounded that didn’t need to be.


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I think you drastically overestimate the number of long-range shots that wound game. Most either know what they're doing and kill, or they don't and miss altogether, IME.

 

[WeiserBucks]

How much of this long range craze is driven by the modern day market hunter influencer? The answer certainly isn’t zero.

Ban influencers and we're all better off except them. I'll make that trade.

 

[bowrunner81]

Regulations are a blanket, one size fits all.

Not if it was a qualification at a requested distance similar to the one shot challenge on Rokslide. I guess I could say that I don’t think this should be the answer, I just think people shoot at game further than they are capable.

 

[fatlander]

Ban influencers and we're all better off except them. I'll make that trade.

I’d take that in a minute too. They’ve done more to the detriment of hunting than anyone in last 100 years since the original market hunters were all stopped.


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[Jordan Smith]

The equipment of today gives too many people the false sense that they can and should take shots they shouldn’t. 2 decades ago, we heard of none of this.

That's because you didn't have the internet. I have heard plenty of guys from the old days talking about Kentucky windage and shooting at game at 400+ yards.

Nothing has changed. The problem is still people shooting beyond their competence level.

 

[Formidilosus]

More often than not, those guys don't want to make unethical shot decisions - their shot decisions are just so poorly informed that they're unintentionally unethical.

The solution is awareness.

Correct. Knowledge, skill, and ability. Bookended by a culture that does not promote or accept poor performance.


One of the biggest problems is the people railing the most about distance shooting, are the hunters that suck at shooting.

 

[long hunter]

This is a question that only the actual shooter can answer,even if there were distance limits so to speak how would they be enforced. Sadly very few or at least a small percentage of hunters are capable of long distance shooting at an animal, but they would disagree otherwise. Junior wanna be sniper spends say a day or two at the range rings some steel at the 300 yard line and now is capable of 6 to 8 hundred yard shots I think not. It is a commitment on the shooters behalf to know there capabilities and have the self discipline to stay within there ability.

 

[fatlander]

That's because you didn't have the internet. I have heard plenty of guys from the old days talking about Kentucky windage and shooting at game at 400+ yards.

Nothing has changed. The problem is still people shooting beyond their competence level.

“Long-range shooting has become extremely popular in the last few decades. More and more people continue to join the folds of precision rifle shooters, pushed forward by marketing campaigns from every rifle manufacturer out there. Long-range shooting has infiltrated many activities, but perhaps none as controversial as hunting. With so much activity in this practice, I figured it was a good idea to discuss building long-range hunting skills.”


https://coldboremiracle.com/2024/0... lowering of the entry,same as it always has.


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[Formidilosus]

60+ yard archery shots are normal
500+ yard rifle shots are normal
60+ yard shotgun kills are normal

They weren’t a few decades ago.

That has nothing to do with sights- there were lots of adjustable single pin sights 25 years ago. There were adjustable turrets on scope in the 1800’s.

The only real things that have changed are laser rangefinders, and ballistic calculators on phones.


That’s the problem with these arguments- the ones arguing for it, are also ignorant of the subject.

 

[Formidilosus]

It’s removing the easy button. If someone wants to break the law, they’re going to break the law.

Before variable turrets became popular, I knew not a single person that ever dreamed of dialing a scope to shoot an animal. You sighted the rifle in somewhere between 1 and 200 yards, knew you’re holdover to 300ish. If it was further than that, oh well the animal won.


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That is not the catalyst for distance shooting- laser rangefinders were.

You guys need better well thought out arguments- what you, @SDHNTR, and others argue isn’t logical and you lose people in the conversation because it doesn’t pass common sense or any level of scrutiny.

 

[fatlander]

That has nothing to do with sights- there were lots of adjustable single pin sights 25 years ago. There were adjustable turrets on scope in the 1800’s.

The only real things that have changed are laser rangefinders, and ballistic calculators on phones.


That’s the problem with these arguments- the ones arguing for it, are also ignorant of the subject.

When did it rise in popularity and does it coincide with a nose dive in mule deer numbers and wild turkey numbers to name a few?

I know there’s lot of factors causing the decline, we’re the easiest factor to control.


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[Formidilosus]

When did it rise in popularity and does it coincide with a nose dive in mule deer numbers and wild turkey numbers to name a few?

I know there’s lot of factors causing the decline, we’re the easiest factor to control.


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No- LR shooting does not coincide with the decline of animal numbers. Mule deer numbers has nothing to do with LR shooting of bucks. That another fallacy that people make- that a “healthy” deer herd needs more big bucks. The two are separate.


There are things that have dramatically changed the hunting landscape-

1). A purposeful, and artificial marketing drive to recruit a constant stream of new participants to buy new products every year, I.E.- consumerism.

2). A purposeful and artificial marketing drive to funnel more people into hunting the west, instead of their home state.

3). OnX and other mapping software that makes the masses comfortable getting off trail, and removes all sanctuary cover or spots except for private ground.

4). Laser rangefinders making “precise” elevation corrections easy/making hunters believe it is easy.



Combine all of those into an all out, 24/7 marketing assault towards all hunters and non hunters through social media feeds, and you get a drastic change in the landscape.


Note: not one of those has to do with knowledge, skill, or ability.

 

[NRA4LIFE]

Ban long range hunting, then bow hunting. What's next?

 

[weaver]

I could be wrong but I don’t think people wounding game by shooting beyond their abilities has changed much over time, or that long range hunting is having an outsized effect on game populations. Everybody and their brother having a YouTube channel just makes it more visible.
I’m all for limiting equipment if it logically helps the resource but outside of rangefinders/no scopes I’m not sure what would effectively work. This is largely an emotional debate with little big picture impact imho.

 

[coyotekilla]

First off, let me state that I'm for less government regulation period.

Secondly, as a farm kid, hunting the same 300 acres for 30 years now, archery hunters wound more game than rifle hunters, by far. Ethically, archery should stop at noon.

As for placing a range limit on how far 1 can shoot at game, it should be done by the hunter on himself, not by the government upon everyone. It should be a matter of ethics to the hunter. Predator or game animal, BOTH deserve the same respect for an ethical kill. It your gonna kill, do it as effectively as you can.