Would you give up RIFLE hunting for 5 years to help Elk and Deer populations???

[Jason Snyder]

Fire 4 desk jockeys from your state's Fish and Game departments and hire 8 guys with dog packs. Turn them loose with a vengeance on mountain lions and coyotes. Maybe add a bounty program on coyotes as well. Stop issuing mule deer doe tags and stop rut hunts for mule deer bucks. Try that for 5 years and get back to me on results.

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You'd still have the far bigger issues of access to public animals on private lands, regardless of your dog pack efforts. Much of the perceived population issues are really private land refuge issues.

Edit: A much more productive way of increasing elk numbers would be to have FWP revisit the 2004 Elk Mgmt Plan. This plan is why elk numbers in the breaks were drastically reduced in the mid 2000's, when cow elk were being shot left and right in order for numbers to be in compliance with the EMP (per Debbie Barrett's bill mandating this). I am willing to bet that nearly ALL of the objective populations could be much higher than they are without any concern for habitat damage.

 

[JG358]

I'd like to see the last two weeks of general season shut down for mule deer and make it archery only those 2 weeks.

Take out the last two weeks all together if your so worried about how stupid bucks get during the rut otherwise your just hand picking in order try to suit your personal needs/wants.

 

[brewer427]

Just as usual SHREK turns this into a shit show. I am not crying about wanting bigger game, I am simply stating that a lot of areas me and others hunt are no where near what they use to be in terms of sightings and harvests of animals.

 

[brewer427]

I don't know where you hunt in Montana, but we find plenty of bulls bigger than raghorns and on public land.

If you want to help the mule deer, move the rifle season out of the rut.

This type of thinking is what I was trying to imply in this thread. I would be all for this.

 

[brewer427]

Axel , the populations are being managed down by the introduction of or promotion large carnivores to destroy hunting. Your and my beef is with "rewilding" agenda 21 based policies. Brewer427 is crying about his personal boogiemen and his lack of ability to adapt to elk and deer that have shut up and stick to thick cover 24/7/365 to avoid wolves , lions , and bears. Axel , you have a legitimate issue while Brewer427 is pushing we all hang separately.

What the hell are you talking about man. I harvested a Elk and deer last year and I hunt in thick shit all the time. I can say with 100% certainty that I "adapted" to the elk and deer better then you did on your trip out here. I hardly call while hunting anymore to avoid other hunters and calling in predators.

Every flippin time you post all you do is troll and try to start fights, instead of bringing something positive to the discussion.

 

[gmajor]

If you want to help the mule deer, move the rifle season out of the rut.

Yep, I would support that for mule deer.

 

[Jon Boy]

Take out the last two weeks all together if your so worried about how stupid bucks get during the rut otherwise your just hand picking in order try to suit your personal needs/wants.

Fair enough. The only reason I mentioned making it archery only the last two weeks is to limit harvest while not limiting opportunity as much to limit the amount of opposition that would likely occur if something like this was implemented.
I personally have no desire to chase mule deer with a bow the last two weeks of November in montana.

 

[Shrek]

What the hell are you talking about man. I harvested a Elk and deer last year and I hunt in thick shit all the time. I can say with 100% certainty that I "adapted" to the elk and deer better then you did on your trip out here. I hardly call while hunting anymore to avoid other hunters and calling in predators.

Every flippin time you post all you do is troll and try to start fights, instead of bringing something positive to the discussion.

I'm pretty sure that you came here to troll with the assault on rifle hunting and that if we would all but do away with it all would be well. Jason and some others have spoken to honest solutions to the precieved lack of big bulls and bucks. End hunting of mule deer in the rut is a big one if mature bucks surviving is a priority and changing the management criteria for meeting objectives. The problem is political management and not fellow hunters who choose a different weapons that you. Your premise is to attack and divide your fellow hunters which weakens our ability to influence the political machinations that are driving lower herd numbers.

 

[brewer427]

Ding ding ding. A lot of our elk herds in montana are above objective and most anyone whose hunted other states will tell you montana has the greatest trophy potential in general units than any other states.
As far as the mule deer situation, Jason touched on that too. I'd like to see the last two weeks of general season shut down for mule deer and make it archery only those 2 weeks.
We are moving in the right direction though considering we've cut all doe tags for the se part of the state.

I agree some units are doing fine, but look at the bitterroot and HD's like 319 and 334. They need some help and I know there are other areas. And there are other states, I am not limiting my thoughts to just Montana.

I know this would be a huge change and would affect a lot of people financially, I was just thinking about this and thought I would post it up here and see what your thoughts would be and maybe see what alternative ideas anybody would have.

I know personally we lost 3 gentleman this last season who have quit hunting because they are fed up with putting in the time and money with what little vacation days they have for hunting and very limited success. That is what I was trying to figure out what could be done to up the chances of success for people who don't get to take 1-2 weeks vacation and go hunt like a lot of us are so lucky to be able to. So by adding more Bulls and bucks to the population, not size just quantity.

 

[brewer427]

I'm pretty sure that you came here to troll with the assault on rifle hunting and that if we would all but do away with it all would be well. Jason and some others have spoken to honest solutions to the precieved lack of big bulls and bucks. End hunting of mule deer in the rut is a big one if mature bucks surviving is a priority and changing the management criteria for meeting objectives. The problem is political management and not fellow hunters who choose a different weapons that you. Your premise is to attack and divide your fellow hunters which weakens our ability to influence the political machinations that are driving lower herd numbers.

Shrek I hunt every year with a rifle. I took two does and a Antelope last year. I am not against Rifle hunting man, just trying to think of getting populations up where there hurting, not the antler size, the population.

 

[Jon Boy]

I hear what you saying. I don't necessarily agree. But by shutting off the rifle season for 5 years you would still lose those same 3 gentlemen and many many others because of the loss of opportunity. Sure the hunting may be better after those 5 years but I don't think your solving the issue you set out to solve.
I am sorry to hear about your acquaintances quitting. That truly is sad. But the fact of the matter is, your not generally going to kill an elk in just a few days at a time. No matter where you are. Period. It's elk hunting. It's tough and not for every one. It takes weeks of hard work to consistently kill elk via pre season scouting and time hunting. That is my opinion and know there are exceptions to the rule like the guy everyone knows who kills a bull in opening day every year. I am not one of those guys amd likely never will be.

 

[Muledeernv]

I don't get a lot of time off for hunting for myself and my son's and sometimes we don't harvest but I enjoy every bit of time I can spend in the outdoors with them. I know if I would hunt harder we could come home with meat every time but that is my fault. Quitting for 5 years would probably help population but in the mean time you would fill your time with something else and it would be hard to get back to hunting. It is not the harvest that keeps me hunting it is the time spent with hunting buddies and family. I don't quit because I didn't harvest I just try to improve on my abilities to be able to harvest. ie. become a better hunter.

 

[Jason Snyder]

That is my opinion and know there are exceptions to the rule like the guy everyone knows who kills a bull in opening day every year. I am not one of those guys amd likely never will be.

Welcome to the shitty hunter club


I agree with what you're saying, we're living in the good old days of elk hunting right now. Mule deer is another story, and I highly doubt we'll EVER see a return to the glory years of the 60's and 70's. Capitalize on the opportunities that are in front of you, right here and right now.

I know where I'll be come September....

 

[Shrek]

Brewer427 , the lower herd numbers in any given area can be attributed to many localized situations and need localized solutions. The bigger picture goes back to the late 70's and early 80's when the idea of rewilding was introduced in the fringes of the ecoterror movement. It began to gain traction in academia and by 92 it was the fashion in greenie back room dealing and Clinton came to power and lent the greenies real power and the first order of business was reintroduction of Wolves and the use of the ESA as their stalking horse and weapon. Logging curtailed in the NW , ending ruthless predator suppression , and the directing of funds to academia to promote the agenda. By the early 2000's these efforts started to really effect the world we live in and the believers were raising through the ranks at all levels of government. Today the true believers of rewilding are ascending to the top spots across all levels and the pace of replacing managed hunting to benefit man with management to exclude man is quickening.

 

[GFY]

I know Jason mentioned this, but the BIGGEST reason for low elk #'s in MT is the EMP and Debbie Bartlett.

 

[tttoadman]

I know I don't follow the politics as much as others, but i have a couple thoughts.

I Oregon, we basically have no mule deer hunting in the rut, and our populations are still dropping.

This is my bad side coming out so don't hit me too hard: I think Whitetail deer are tough and they push mule deer out of good cover. Maybe? This is my PC comment. What i really want to do with them is a little different.

I understand elk will push mule deer out. The more we push elk around, and the more they move to avoid preditors, the more they will displace deer herds.

To the OP question. I would never stop hunting. I would focus more hunting with my camera, and continue to be selective with harvesting deer. I would like to put more time into learning to hunt preditors. I am afraid we would lose political ground if we stopped hunting. I also believe that poachers and vehicles kill more deer than we do. I think our presence still is some detourant for the poachers. I think it would get worse without our presence in the woods.

 

[martin_shooter]

As somebody who lives in a state where in 2008 we had 149k rifle deer tags, and last year we had 48k, I can tell you that reducing rifle hunting, in conjunction with milder winters, does have a positive affect on critter herds. Both my observations and aerial surveys prove this. Furthermore, closing mule deer doe hunting in 8 units (both bow and rifle) has an even much greater affect. I hunted a spot last year I hadn't been in to since 2010 and the difference in deer numbers was astronomical. More bucks, and many many more does with fawns. Lots of twins.

Also, 2014 marked the first year we've had an antelope season since they closed it in 2010. They shut it down completely, both bow and rifle. The numbers are coming back.

I have not rifle hunted in my own state for 3 years, and I'm sure 2015 will mark the 4th. I accept that in these times of low critter numbers. I also accept the fact that my rifle hunting has a far greater affect on herd management then does my archery hunting. Personal and statewide success rates prove this. Tough concept for some to grasp however.

For the record I live in ND. Our badlands/mule deer/antelope are Western ND. Same dynamics at play as Eastern MT. They were hit hard when we were hit hard.

Also, can you imagine the money our NDGF has lost in tags since 2008 at $20 a pop for residents? Over $2M difference yearly between 2008 and 2014. They're still doing just fine. One thing that is out of control is the loss of habitat. And that is a HUGE factor in the scheme of things, and sadly why we will never have the kind of hunting we did just a few years back.

Just thought I'd chime in with some real life examples here. I'm not an anti rifle hunting "houlier then thou" archery hunter. I enjoy all forms of hunting.

Western North Dakota habitat has been decimated. With the amount of CRP that has been lost combined with the habitat degradation from oil and gas development has only multiplied the problems associated with the recent tough winters. The number of new roads that have been punched in all over the western half of the state (think edge effect) along with the exponential increase in vehicles travelling has really hurt the deer. ND might have made a bad call 06-09 by giving out as many doe tags as were wanted. It's a complex issue where alot of farmers were complaining about depredation with the tough winters. You bring back CRP and you will see deer numbers move back up.

In the west development and general habitat loss has taken its toll. I personally do not agree with current fire suppression methods. Wolves are here to stay. They kill far fewer elk than bears or lions. Wolves have forced elk into more traditional habitat, which is harder for people to hunt (just like the wolves). Mule deer are another story. They need some real help. I'm not sure that reducing rut tags is going to really solve the underlying population issues.

 

[rayporter]

no

i better leave it at that

 

[Jason Snyder]

You bring back CRP and you will see deer numbers move back up.

In the west development and general habitat loss has taken its toll.

I personally do not agree with current fire suppression methods.

Wolves are here to stay. They kill far fewer elk than bears or lions. Wolves have forced elk into more traditional habitat, which is harder for people to hunt (just like the wolves).

Mule deer are another story. They need some real help. I'm not sure that reducing rut tags is going to really solve the underlying population issues.

I couldn't agree more with all of these points.

 

[mtnwrunner]

no

i better leave it at that

I agree with the above answer. 5 years is a long time not to hunt, at least for me. It's why I live.

Randy