Would you buy this scope?

[Formidilosus]

No chance you can convince them to just go to 6mils on the bottom post too, eh?

No. There is a segment that needs or wants to be able to hold in the reticle. Think of that one as an improved/updated SWFA MilQuad reticle. It is good, but the THLR is better for killing.

 

[solarshooter]

the THLR is better for killing

You've used the word killing a lot with regards to this scope and I just want to make sure I understand why you're being so specific with that term. My take is (please correct if wrong) that the thicker/closer posts and lack of an xmas tree limit the utility for big holdover or holdover+ wind one might find in a "competition" scope (designed for "hitting"), but make it better for hunting (my word choice) due to it's low-zoom low-light prowess. And the intuitive wind brackets and aim short/long dots are meant to work with quickdrop and wind number methods favored by hunters. But I'm saying hunting, and you're saying killing, so can you elaborate a bit on if there's something I'm missing or getting wrong?

 

[IrkedCitizen]

When I go hunting I intend on killing an animal

 

[Shortschaf]

True, the market that would prefer it at 6MIL will probably buy a THLR anyway, myself included

Still a little puzzling. 6MIL holdover gets me like 650 yards with factory 223

 

[HuntHarder]

 

[solarshooter]

When I go hunting I intend on killing an animal

Yes, and maybe it's that simple, but I'd like to hear Form's answer.

View attachment 1020972

Please, that was not the debate I was trying to trigger here.

 

[MuleyFever]

You've used the word killing a lot with regards to this scope and I just want to make sure I understand why you're being so specific with that term.

The weapon system has one purpose, to kill.

 

[alexnelon]

Still a little puzzling. 6MIL holdover gets me like 650 yards with factory 223

For competitions, specifically gas gun comps where holding over is more common, you typically need 10 mils for a .223/5.56 to be able to shoot the whole course of fire without dialing.

 

[Shraggs]

Solar, I’m anxious to here him too.

If I were a betting man i’d say it would be very consistent with a lot of the things he has shared here from spotting an animal building a position to range finding binoculars all take time out of the process of identification and killing. I think the scope visually - not that there’s huge differences between the standard mill, but the way the eye is drawn to it is what set it apart and it’s unique use in lowest power for a ffp.

 

[Formidilosus]

You've used the word killing a lot with regards to this scope and I just want to make sure I understand why you're being so specific with that term. My take is (please correct if wrong) that the thicker/closer posts and lack of an xmas tree limit the utility for big holdover or holdover+ wind one might find in a "competition" scope (designed for "hitting"), but make it better for hunting (my word choice) due to it's low-zoom low-light prowess. And the intuitive wind brackets and aim short/long dots are meant to work with quickdrop and wind number methods favored by hunters. But I'm saying hunting, and you're saying killing, so can you elaborate a bit on if there's something I'm missing or getting wrong?

You are correct, it is purposeful.

Without writing a dissertation about it:

Most reticles are made because they are pleasing to look at- symmetrical, even; and or because that is what is common and has always been done. The rest are made for how people “think” they might shoot one day at targets- not for how they actually shoot.

Neither of those reasons is “what helps kill living, moving animals in all light and terrain” the best.

The original THLR, and I would say as much or maybe more, this simplified version- is designed/optimized for drawing your eye to what’s important for shooting living things. @THLR has written quite a bit about the “why” behind most of the reticles design- and that “this feature helps support this thing”, or “this helps support that”, etc. I will go farther than that: the reticle doesn’t just help support- it drives your eye and brain to what you need to be looking at in use- and it does so generally intuitively. It starts thick on the outside and gets thinner as you get to the center- it draws your eye in. The fine .2 mil ticks are small, the .5 marks are slightly thicker, the 1 mil marks are even thicker. The box and solid wind bracket line tell you subconsciously so much about your acceptable wind error, and target size error. And it does it without hearing about it beforehand.


It’s hard to explain in text- I have killed a lot of animals for something more akin to professional culling than hunting with a lot of reticles, and in a lot of diverse environments. This reticle is the only one that continually shows that it was made for helping kill animals as a specific intent, and not for shooting plates on a range. Several people have used the scopes on animals in the last few weeks- almost all have said something akin to “it seemed a bit different and busy looking at it inside. After shooting animals with it- that the best/most intuitive reticle I have ever used”.

 

[solarshooter]

Solar, I’m anxious to here him too.

If I were a betting man i’d say it would be very consistent with a lot of the things he has shared here from spotting an animal building a position to range finding binoculars all take time out of the process of identification and killing. I think the scope visually - not that there’s huge differences between the standard mill, but the way the eye is drawn to it is what set it apart and it’s unique use in lowest power for a ffp.

Yeah, I agree, it PULLS your eye to the center. And THLR has hinted that he applied some pretty esoteric theories from other domains when designing it (repeated plug for getting him on the podcast). Steve Jobs said that the best technology should either be beautiful or invisible. I think this is a little of both - there's a lot more to this reticle than meets the eye. And some of Form's and THLR's comments are hinting at that.

Edit: posted before seeing Form's reply above