Would you buy this scope?

[Formidilosus]

Crossed replies!

Yes sir.

Ffp and dialing=makes perfect sense.

Combining that with 2-8 magnification is just unconventional. Which I should expect from you, BUT its not where my mind went when you threw out “2-8x36”. I’m really just curious to see what you guys interpret that scope as, and how or if it fits into my use, that’s all. I find that magnification more interesting than 3 to 18. My question is really whether it’s a “crossover from hunting at home to sometimes hunting in the west” scope, or if it would make me happy as a “dedicated hunting at home” scope. Which is definitely a devil is in the details question and likely far too early to say. But you have my attention.

I understand. The 2-8x ‘ish scope, is the scope that would go on almost all of my general use rifles regardless of state or location.

The moment that someone lets go of “I need to be able to hold 900 yards of elevation in a 70 mph wind just in case the aliens land in a hurricane”… is the moment that an FFP reticle can be made correct. And the , there is no advantage to a SFP scope.

The moment that someone lets go of “I need to be able to hang Christmas ornaments off my elevation turret just in case the aliens land and outlaw Christmas trees”… is the moment made for purpose turrets can be made that are dialable, and will not get accidentally moved.

 

[N2TRKYS]

Whose boal do I gotta wallop to get a SWFA 3-9 with the S2H reticle, capped wind, and low profile elevation turret w/zero stop?

With smaller turrets you’d already be under the 20oz 3-9. Perfect scope. Done.

I’m with you, except I’d much rather have the SWFA 3-9x42 reticle.

 

[Jake Larsen]

Yes sir.





I understand. The 2-8x ‘ish scope, is the scope that would go on almost all of my general use rifles regardless of state or location.

The moment that someone lets go of “I need to be able to hold 900 yards of elevation in a 70 mph wind just in case the aliens land in a hurricane”… is the moment that an FFP reticle can be made correct. And the , there is no advantage to a SFP scope.

The moment that someone lets go of “I need to be able to hang Christmas ornaments off my elevation turret just in case the aliens land and outlaw Christmas trees”… is the moment made for purpose turrets can be made that are dialable, and will not get accidentally moved.

Say it louder!

And as far as the 8-9 ish max power, as soon as people realize that’s plenty of zoom to be making shots on game out to 600-700, which is all 99.99% of hunters Will or should ever do, this scope makes even more sense. As long as it lets in enough light and has clear enough glass to be functional in the first/last few minutes of legal. I’m way more exited about this potential scope than the 3-18


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[Formidilosus]

Say it louder!

And as far as the 8-9 ish max power, as soon as people realize that’s plenty of zoom to be making shots on game out to 600-700, which is all 99.99% of hunters Will or should ever do, this scope makes even more sense. As long as it lets in enough light and has clear enough glass to be functional in the first/last few minutes of legal. I’m way more exited about this potential scope than the 3-18


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Hey now! The 3-18x will be legit and will be an excellent all around scope.



But yes.

 

[Macintosh]

Yes sir.





I understand. The 2-8x ‘ish scope, is the scope that would go on almost all of my general use rifles regardless of state or location.

The moment that someone lets go of “I need to be able to hold 900 yards of elevation in a 70 mph wind just in case the aliens land in a hurricane”… is the moment that an FFP reticle can be made correct. And the , there is no advantage to a SFP scope.

The moment that someone lets go of “I need to be able to hang Christmas ornaments off my elevation turret just in case the aliens land and outlaw Christmas trees”… is the moment made for purpose turrets can be made that are dialable, and will not get accidentally moved.

I am definitely not the “shooting 900 yards in the reticle/christmas ornaments” guy. Far from it. So I’ll be looking forward to see this one, it has a lot more potential to find a home on one of my rifles than any 3-18.

 

[rbutcher1234]

Light, reliable, correct tracking, correct reticle, FFP, 2-8x36 is exactly the scope that everybody needs and should honestly be using.

 

[Dobermann]

Honestly id love to see a fixed 8x. Everyone is real queer about the SWFA 6x but I actually prefer the fixed 10. A fixed 8x with the THLR I think would be perfect

A fixed THLR reticle would work, certainly.

But the real value of the THLR reticle becomes apparent when used throughout the mag ranges. It's one of the rare FFP reticles that is genuinely useful at low power, and has increasing usable features (rather than decreasing, as in the case of some Christmas trees) at higher magnification - because the detailed elements seen at high mag are close to the center dot and in the usable 'workspace', not 20 MOA out from center.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

At the right price point (under $1000), I can see myself purchasing one 3-18x for a dedicated longer range rifle. It’s just not exactly my style. But it seems to fit what most people want in the wider shooting world. It makes sense to lead off with that (just like the Reaper or OG 6.5 should have been the first Unknown suppressors).

Done properly, a reliable 12-20 ounce, FFP, dialing, zero stopped, capped windage, 2-8x36 would be the scope I would want on all my other hunting rifles. I could see myself purchasing at least two, and probably more like four, of those. I’d love something that was better for hunting purposes - across the spectrum - than my SWFA 6x, 10x, 1-6x, and 3-9x scopes.

And, yes, I would love an SWFA 8x gen2 at $350-400, but I’d rather have Form’s ideal 2-8x at $600-800 (a man can dream, right?).

Of course, the perversity of the market is that listing the scope at a more expensive price would probably attract more attention. I wouldn’t be shocked if the 3-18x sold better at a list price of $1499, with a RokSlide discount of $500.

 

[pattimusprime22]

Ya, I was thinking for a fixed power, a standard mildot variant like the SWFA milquad with some thicker posts would be enough for me.

 

[betelgeuse]

If the reticle suits you, it’s fine. For me and a lot of others, the reticle is a complete fail. Not only that, it’s heavier than the 3-9x SWFA which is the current best scope on the market in that power range.

I have the SWFA 3-15 mil quad. It's actually a good piece. I use it at the range

I used to shoot the 12x and it was great at the range as well. They are pretty good stuff. People that don't know look at them funny.

 

[wyosam]

Because it would require a ground up new design which is 2’ish years.






It is possible to get a reliable scope under 20iz.

Awesome, looking forward to it!


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[SDHNTR]

I don't think you understand what a scam is. Pre-pay is for someone that knows there is not a ship date, and knows they are offering an interest free loan. You can not scam the willing! It's not for you, great. It is for those that want one of these scopes, and there would be lots that would willingly pay up front. It's a free market economy, let the market work.

Fair point, for those willing to be scammed.

 

[nm.otter]

for a fixed power, a standard mildot variant like the SWFA milquad with some thicker posts would be enough for me.

Thicker posts with none on top, bottom post comes within 2 mils of the center point. Sort of like a German #1 with a cross and mil dot hashes in place of the center void.

 

[fwafwow]

Fair point, for those willing to be scammed.

What if the pre-pay price is less than the final price?

 

[SDHNTR]

What if the pre-pay price is less than the final price?

Well, that then would actually make more sense, because then the “loan” is no longer interest free, and the buyer is compensated for the risk that was passed off to him.

 

[Dobermann]

@fwafwow - if you continue in this discourse, you may require a prophylactic. May I propose the following:

I think this video also gives context to much of what @Formidilosus has posted about engineers here over the years ...

 

[gbflyer]

I don’t mind a prepay with a reputable vendor. Puts a quick end to the bullshitters.

 

[Dobermann]

I understand what you’re saying, but it’s called risk, and acceptance of it is a cornerstone of capitalism. Businesses assume the risk, not pass it off to the consumer. Consumers shouldn’t be so gullible so as to allow this practice to proliferate.

I'll play ... but shouldn't we customers, who have wanted and demanded this product for years be allowed to give our money in advance to S2H to ensure this scope becomes a reality? In some ways, one could argue that we're nearly beholden to, because we demanded it ... otherwise, we increased the risk for them.

 

[pattimusprime22]

I'll play ... but shouldn't we customers, who have wanted and demanded this product for years be allowed to give our money in advance to S2H to ensure this scope becomes a reality? In some ways, one could argue that we're nearly beholden to, because we demanded it ... otherwise, we increased the risk for them.

We are allowed to. We as customers can assume some of the risk as a means of expediting the production of the scope. We're encouraging a business to produce something by giving them a risk free loan.

Seems like this is becoming more normal with businesses launching things on Kickstarter. The difference there is that the early purchasers (lenders) are getting a discounted product when they are early buyers on Kickerstarter.

 

[Dobermann]

We are allowed to. We as customers can assume some of the risk as a means of expediting the production of the scope. We're encouraging a business to produce something by giving them a risk free loan.

Seems like this is becoming more normal with businesses launching things on Kickstarter. The difference there is that the early purchasers (lenders) are getting a discounted product when they are early buyers on Kickerstarter.

Exactly. I don't 'follow' what's on Kickstarter, but have scored some very, very, innovative and well-made things that used Kickstarter campaigns - these were made by true innovators/mavericks who had a vision and just wanted it done well ... quite the opposite of a lot of dominant corporate ethos.

Their ideas spread by word-of-mouth, we effectively crowdsourced the funding, and allowed a product to come to market that would never have made it via the existing models. Old textbook economic and marketing theory are out of date.