Would you buy this scope?

[Tanner]

All good.

And here's something weird: I thought I'd got rid of all of my LRTS/LRHS 3-12s, and had always regretted it. But when tidying up the man cave/gun room today, I found an LRTS 3-12 in FDE. Now I have no idea what to do with it - feels like it's been surpassed by the Maven RS 1.2, and no doubt will be by the new Rokslide venture ... but I'm really not sure what I'd do with it ...

I’ll buy it…

 

[Dobermann]

Hey Form. Hope you’re having a good New Year’s Eve. No rush to respond on this.

I was thinking about the THLR reticle and the new scope you guys are developing. I like Thomas’ stuff and enjoy his videos, but struggle a bit with the meters per second wind holds. I can do the math, but it’s an extra step for a gringo Norte Americano who thinks in MPH. I’m curious if this new THLR-type reticle would continue with the wind holds in meters per second that Thomas used in the original, convert it to MPH, or would it do away with that and use a standard mil scale on the windage axis? Are you at a point where you can talk about this?

Don't get caught up on the m/s issue.

While it's true that the USA is backwards in insisting in 'Imperial' measurements (c'mon, 1776 was a long time ago!), the markings in the THLR reticle are also in mils.

And as @HingleMcCringleberry said above, Thomas shows how to estimate based on vegetation movement. Won't work for all situations, but where it is relevant, the fact that it's in metres doesn't really matter - just think of 'X observation equals 2', 'Y equals 3' etc, and go for it. Or just go for light, medium, and strong.

 

[ElPollo]

Don't get caught up on the m/s issue.

While it's true that the USA is backwards in insisting in 'Imperial' measurements (c'mon, 1776 was a long time ago!), the markings in the THLR reticle are also in mils.

And as @HingleMcCringleberry said above, Thomas shows how to estimate based on vegetation movement. Won't work for all situations, but where it is relevant, the fact that it's in metres doesn't really matter - just think of 'X observation equals 2', 'Y equals 3' etc, and go for it. Or just go for light, medium, and strong.

I hear you. But from a marketing standpoint, I doubt a reticle in mps would do all that well with other Norte Americanos who might be as good or worse than me at math. I get that 1 mps is about 2.4 mph and 2 mps is darned near 5 mph, 3 mps is a bit over 7 mph, etc.

But I live out on the prairie where light, medium, and strong doesn’t always cut it for wind holds. I don’t get the feeling that Thomas regularly deals with wind speeds in excess of 10 mps in Norway. Sometimes we actually have to gauge wind speed out here by how fast your dog’s lips are flapping. We actually train for this by watching the dog when he’s got his head out the truck window at known speeds.

 

[Formidilosus]

Hey Form. Hope you’re having a good New Year’s Eve. No rush to respond on this.

I was thinking about the THLR reticle and the new scope you guys are developing. I like Thomas’ stuff and enjoy his videos, but struggle a bit with the meters per second wind holds. I can do the math, but it’s an extra step for a gringo Norte Americano who thinks in MPH. I’m curious if this new THLR-type reticle would continue with the wind holds in meters per second that Thomas used in the original, convert it to MPH, or would it do away with that and use a standard mil scale on the windage axis? Are you at a point where you can talk about this?

The THLR is a pure mil reticle. The only way you know about the light/medium/heavy winds is if you learn it. That he lines it out at mps doesn’t really mean anything.

 

[Dobermann]

Sometimes we actually have to gauge wind speed out here by how fast your dog’s lips are flapping. We actually train for this by watching the dog when he’s got his head out the truck window at known speeds.

I so much want to believe this to be true ...

aaand ,... what Form said. Which is pretty much what I said. Which might be the first time it's happened in that order!

 

[ElPollo]

The THLR is a pure mil reticle. The only way you know about the light/medium/heavy winds is if you learn it. That he lines it out at mps doesn’t really mean anything.

I’m sure I’m over thinking it. But speed is supposed to be the point of the reticle. When I listen to Thomas talk about dealing with wind, my brain hangs up on the conversion just to make sense of it. If his reticle said light, medium and heavy wind, my brain would have an easier time with it than 1, 2, 3 mps.

 

[ElPollo]

I so much want to believe this to be true ...

aaand ,... what Form said. Which is pretty much what I said. Which might be the first time it's happened in that order!

Maybe we can get Form to adjust that THLR reticle to include low, medium, high, “flp-flp-flp-flp”? Much past that, the wind starts picking up the dirt and you get grit in your teeth. A few years ago, I was out with a rancher during a full-on, 0-visibility dust storm. When we got back to the truck, he said, “You know, days like this just take all the romance out of being a cowboy.”

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

I’m sure I’m over thinking it. But speed is supposed to be the point of the reticle. When I listen to Thomas talk about dealing with wind, my brain hangs up on the conversion just to make sense of it. If his reticle said light, medium and heavy wind, my brain would have an easier time with it than 1, 2, 3 mps.

Are you referring to the portion I have highlighted on the reticle? If so that is for moving targets, which is in meters per second. The wind brackets are different

 

[ElPollo]

Are you referring to the portion I have highlighted on the reticle? If so that is for moving targets, which is in meters per second. The wind brackets are different
View attachment 814836

Yes, and you’re correct. I was misinterpreting it. Thanks. There’s a lot going on in this reticle. If it has a downside, it’s the complexity.

 

[HingleMcCringleberry]

Yes, and you’re correct. I was misinterpreting it. Thanks. There’s a lot going on in this reticle. If it has a downside, it’s the complexity.

I suspect the simplified thlr will be more intuitive.

 

[HighUintas]

I can't really see a need to make it any more complex than the maven rs1.2 mil.reticle. is there some easy highly functional capability of the thlr reticle that I'm missing?

 

[BRTreedogs]

@Formidilosus
My suggestion is to make the scope weight whatever it needs to be to insure reliability.

Then on the order page have a box to check if you’re a weight weenie, and need a trail size tube a VAGASIL sent for with the scope.

 

[kcormack]

is there some easy highly functional capability of the thlr reticle that I'm missing?

Washington Monument, draws / helps eye to center up target initially.

 

[RockAndSage]

Don't get caught up on the m/s issue.

While it's true that the USA is backwards in insisting in 'Imperial' measurements (c'mon, 1776 was a long time ago!), the markings in the THLR reticle are also in mils.

There are two types of countries in the world:

Those who use metric, and those who put a man on the moon.

Now, pardon me while I go eat some bacon while driving my diesel to the gun range to shoot machineguns, while listening to some Lee Greenwood.

 

[Chris_in_Idaho]

those who put a man on the moon.

...using the metric system.

 

[Balderdash]

There are two types of countries in the world:

Those who use metric, and those who put a man on the moon.

Now, pardon me while I go eat some bacon while driving my diesel to the gun range to shoot machineguns, while listening to some Lee Greenwood.

"A gross physical salute to the fantastic possibilities of life in this country."

 

[HighUintas]

There are two types of countries in the world:

Those who use metric, and those who put a man on the moon.

Now, pardon me while I go eat some bacon while driving my diesel to the gun range to shoot machineguns, while listening to some Lee Greenwood.

"A gross physical salute to the fantastic possibilities of life in this country."

They only used metric within the computer software guidance system for the lander module. The astronauts and readout was imperial.

 

[BRTreedogs]

The moon landing was faked

 

[RockAndSage]

The moon landing was faked

Faked in metric.

 

[Dobermann]

Yes, and you’re correct. I was misinterpreting it. Thanks. There’s a lot going on in this reticle. If it has a downside, it’s the complexity.

Yes ... and ... some of that complexity disappears when you're focussed on the most important parts / the mil aspects that are most relevant if you want that to be how you use it.

Check out Form's eval, where he shows this visually - there's a post that reads something like 'and here's what you see in use'.

Then, if there are other aspects that you want to use, you train up for those via research (Rokslide has become the single-best repository of this information); dryfire and/or target use; field use. Like anything new and complex, it becomes easier with time.

And again - you can just ignore it all, and use the mil marks. But the full functionality of the complete THLR reticle is pretty special.

Bear in mind that it was created in part with military application in mind (the first videos showed this use, but I think have been pulled down); the benefit of a simplified version will be reduced elements for hunting, but might remove some of the wider precision / field / DMR / mil long range applications. Another reason to grab a ZP5 before they're discontinued, if you want those options ... we've focussed here on how the THLR is one of the best hunting reticles around; it's clear applications in military and analogous uses is highly underrated (probably more underrated than the hunting applications).

If we lived in a sensible world, the military wouldn't be using that 'abomination of a reticle', as Caylen recently called the Tremor, but the THLR - far more field-useable functionality.