wolf management debate

2ski said:
I mean truthfully as I was reading your post and I got to the criminal comment my thought was "dude make a better choice of words if your goal is trying to get someone to listen to you".
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Just because the left seems to like criminals, doesn't mean that his choice of words was wrong. In fact......the more you think about that word, it fits really really well in this discussion. These people need to be hit with "realities" in every single discussion and interaction. Sugar-coating and niceties will not fix anything. We're well past that in today's times.
 
westernarcher said:
So I was able to get in on the conversation thru zoom. Here’s my take away.

The goal is to get all sides together in the same camp and get them to smile a shake hands. Share a burger and drink some whiskey. Her exact words. I can’t make it up.

I was able to speak a few minutes. I asked her when can we expect the rubber to hit the road (actual wolf management). I told her she was doing a great job getting people to work together but I haven’t actually seen any changes other than decimated ungulate herds. She literally paused and said she didn’t have an answer. Didn’t know how to answer me.

I likened the wolves to criminals that unmanaged, will wreak havoc. If managed they would be more in control just like human criminals.

One of the panelists spoke after I did and said I had triggered her emotions because I had called her wolves criminals.

This is a woke agenda that will lead to nothing but holding hands and wolves getting worse and worse. Fish & game is funding this. So you me brothers. How did it get here? They don’t have the backbone to do what is right. I don’t even know if there’s anybody left in government that wants the right thing done.
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We already have pretty liberal wolf seasons. What "actual wolf management" would you like to see?
 
My main thought about wolf management was in reference to Washington. There is zero management in wilderness areas.
I know we have what feels like liberal management methods here in Idaho. But even that isn't getting the job done. And its getting taken away as we speak. Just last month a judge took a few months of prime trapping season away due to 'POSSIBLE' grizzly detainment from a wolf trap.
F4WM is doing a great job with raising awareness and reimbursing expenses accrued from wolf management efforts. But even that only scratches the surface. These wolves need to be reduced to the point that they fear man again. My referral to them as criminals was off the cuff but the more I think about it the more they actually do become a criminal element in the animal world. They are like assassins when completely left unchecked. No other animals I know will wantonly kill 100 sheep and not eat a bite.
 
5MilesBack said:
Just because the left seems to like criminals, doesn't mean that his choice of words was wrong. In fact......the more you think about that word, it fits really really well in this discussion. These people need to be hit with "realities" in every single discussion and interaction. Sugar-coating and niceties will not fix anything. We're well past that in today's times.
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Criminal implies breaking the law. How does a wolf A. Comprehend a law if there was one a wolf had to follow, and B. What laws is a wolf breaking? So a wolf can't by definition be a criminal. I mean is it against the law for a eagle to kill a rabbit? It's nature is to do so.

So trying to get a bleeding heart to listen and then using the word criminal to describe a wolf is a poor choice of words IMO.
 
@westernarcher , regardless of the accuracy of calling wolves criminal, the statement does not help our cause because the person on the other side of that conversation can't understand what you mean. It's like you're speaking another language to them.

In order to get the wolf protectors to start thinking about the need to manage them, they have to be given something to think about that doesn't automatically shut their brains down and point them inward toward those thoughts of "oh my poor wolves these hunters are just ruthless bloodthirsty killers".
 
HighUintas said:
@westernarcher , regardless of the accuracy of calling wolves criminal, the statement does not help our cause because the person on the other side of that conversation can't understand what you mean. It's like you're speaking another language to them.

In order to get the wolf protectors to start thinking about the need to manage them, they have to be given something to think about that doesn't automatically shut their brains down and point them inward toward those thoughts of "oh my poor wolves these hunters are just ruthless bloodthirsty killers".
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"ruthless bloodthirsty killers", describes wolves perfectly.
 
Pro-wolf folks wanting to listen and work to find a compromise…..that’s fking hilarious. Are these the same people who have gone back on their word here in Oregon about management/seasons after a target number was reached? The same people who file lawsuit after lawsuit? We evidently don’t have enough wolves for management here but somehow we have enough to give some to Colorado.

Can someone explain to me why these back to nature folks need to re-establish wolves anywhere? Why not just let the wolves repopulate areas on their own? I’d say that is the definition of letting nature be nature, no?

I trust these people about as much as I trust those in DC.
 
Well...crap....seems like 2 turds in a punch bowl.
This nonsense has nothing to do with management. Seems more reasonable to believe this is just more greasy wheel stuff. Sure be glad when wheels get so much grease they fall off!
 
UncleBone said:
"ruthless bloodthirsty killers", describes wolves perfectly.
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It describes golden eagles and weasels and mink and orcas and....and...and... I saw a shorebird in Maui kill a lizard a month ago when I was there. Ohhh that bloodthirsty killer!!!

But noone describes any of them that way. So why are some hunters so adamant about describing them that way? If killing something to eat it, makes something a blood thirsty killer then why do we not describe ourselves that way? Because killing something for food does not make one bloodthirsty killers.
Think about it that way maybe.
 
2ski said:
It describes golden eagles and weasels and mink and orcas and....and...and... I saw a shorebird in Maui kill a lizard a month ago when I was there. Ohhh that bloodthirsty killer!!!

But noone describes any of them that way. So why are some hunters so adamant about describing them that way? If killing something to eat it, makes something a blood thirsty killer then why do we not describe ourselves that way? Because killing something for food does not make one bloodthirsty killers.
Think about it that way
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I am not disagreeing that nature can be violent. I was just making a point. Also, wolves will kill entirely for sport. As will some people. Doesn't mean it is wrong that wolves do it. It is just a fact.
 
Wolves are the only animals I've heard of other than a wolverine in Utah, that kill way more animals than it could feasibly eat. Which is why some hunters tend to call them criminal or bloodthirsty killers. It makes sense, but I just wouldn't use that language when voicing my opinion to a wolf humper

This is hilarious. I hate sheep on public land: https://www.sltrib.com/news/environment/2022/03/14/caught-killing-sheep-utah/

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Customweld said:
No matter how you refer to wolves, pro wolf folks don't want to compromise . 30 years of history from Idaho, Wyoming and Montana should show you that. There. Is. No. Compromising. With. These. Groups.
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Even if you do "compromise" with them, it is like compromising woth a 5 year old on bed time. There is really only one winner, and that is the one who realizes they can manipulate you to get their way.
 
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