Will 6 Creedmoor go the way of 7 SAUM?

[nm.otter]

Multi-quote is your friend...

 

[RME]

There should be room for both.

What "should be" isn't a factor. The only thing that matters is sales. There's room for as many as they can make if people are buying them. Sales slow down, SKU's go away, Simple as that.

 

[Kimber7man]

Multi-quote is your friend...

Post count…..

 

[ckleeves]

So if 7SUAM failed, why did 7 PRC blow up? 100% it's marketing.

Or it’s the fact that the 7 PRC is twisted properly and has correct freebore for the heavies and fits in the action length it was designed for. 7 saum was crammed into a model 7 action with a 10 twist and the factory loads with 140’s didn’t really compete with the long established 7 rem mag. It was before LR hunting was popular so the freebore /twist rate wasn’t a big deal but I think it was just a hard sell at a time when velocity was king.

It’s a great cartridge in Tikkas/med actions but it is kinda a weird length. If medium actions were more popular and it was released 5 years ago with good factory 168-175 grain bullets and correct freebore/twist for them it probably would be VERY popular today and the 7 PRC might not have been developed. But its fate in factory form was decided about 20 years ago.

Same with the .260, released at a time when 6.5’s weren’t real popular with the US market and 120’s out of a 1/9 didn’t set the world on fire. I have had Both a 260 (8 twist/.190 freebore) and 6.5 creeds and they are more or less same/same. So why would anyone chose the cartridge that has zero factory support with good LR bullets, more expensive and harder to find brass while you also get the treat of getting to trim more with the 20 degree shoulder. The Creed is simply the better cartridge in Saami form. The only thing keeping the 260 alive is people who hate the Creedmore.

 

[huntnful]

Just picked this up today. The SAAMI .183 freebore seems to accommodate the heavier bullets adequately. We’ll see how it shoots soon enough.

 

[Marbles]

Post count…..

My thoughts.

Though, perhaps he just feels the need to reply to everything as he started the thread. I have the same temptation in threads I start, but try to resist it as it messes up the flow.

Or it’s the fact that the 7 PRC is twisted properly and has correct freebore for the heavies and fits in the action length it was designed for. 7 saum was crammed into a model 7 action with a 10 twist and the factory loads with 140’s didn’t really compete with the long established 7 rem mag. It was before LR hunting was popular so the freebore /twist rate wasn’t a big deal but I think it was just a hard sell at a time when velocity was king.

It’s a great cartridge in Tikkas/med actions but it is kinda a weird length. If medium actions were more popular and it was released 5 years ago with good factory 168-175 grain bullets and correct freebore/twist for them it probably would be VERY popular today and the 7 PRC might not have been developed. But its fate in factory form was decided about 20 years ago.

Same with the .260, released at a time when 6.5’s weren’t real popular with the US market and 120’s out of a 1/9 didn’t set the world on fire. I have had Both a 260 (8 twist/.190 freebore) and 6.5 creeds and they are more or less same/same. So why would anyone chose the cartridge that has zero factory support with good LR bullets, more expensive and harder to find brass while you also get the treat of getting to trim more with the 20 degree shoulder. The Creed is simply the better cartridge in Saami form. The only thing keeping the 260 alive is people who hate the Creedmore.

Yep.

I hand load and have 243 loads with heavies I like; I wanted to avoid the 6 Creedmoor out of spite, but kept looking at ways to fix the 243 shoulder angle and getting custom throats. Finally realized the 6 Creedmoor was what I actually wanted even though I had to get new dies and gauges.

I still like the idea of a 6 SLR or 6 SAW more, but the added trouble is not worth it compared to the creed, but none of those are garden variety 243, which further makes the point.

 

[RME]

I hand load and have 243 loads with heavies I like; I wanted to avoid the 6 Creedmoor out of spite, but kept looking at ways to fix the 243 shoulder angle and getting custom throats. Finally realized the 6 Creedmoor was what I actually wanted even though I had to get new dies and gauges.

I went through that same rodeo with the 260. Granted it was shortly after the 6.5 CM was released so I didn't know much about it at the time. It wasn't until later I realized I was spending a lot of money on a new barrel, custom reamer, and extended magazine/bottom metal to get a 260 to shoot the way a 6.5 CM shoots out of the box. It's not marketing, it's a better mousetrap.

 

[goathunter]

7 saum could be safely re-introduced with a factory fast twist barrel since noone has really actively chambered it forever. Without having to invent a new cartridge. Back its relaunch with a big ammo push. What's old is new again. Let's go Tikka

 

[MT_Wyatt]

So... the 6cm doesn't do anything a 1:8 243 can't already do. I think it's going to be a 6mm rem.

It do not believe it really do led anything different with exterior ballistics, no. The chambering dimensions/throat and shoulder geometry are arguably better for accuracy? Can’t hurt. Not an overwhelming factor but oft cited with 6.5CM (higher accuracy due to tighter chamber specs)

 

[UnckleBob]

7 saum could be safely re-introduced with a factory fast twist barrel since noone has really actively chambered it forever. Without having to invent a new cartridge. Back its relaunch with a big ammo push. What's old is new again. Let's go Tikka

That ship has sailed. There are now more 7's out there in the market and the 6.8W performs as good as or better than the 7 Sauk.

Hornady might try a 25 PRC because it is easy to nest down a 6.5 PRC.

Otherwise, I think all new cartridges are going to be high pressure rounds like the 277 Fury and 7 BC.

 

[goathunter]

That ship has sailed. There are now more 7's out there in the market and the 6.8W performs as good as or better than the 7 Sauk.

Hornady might try a 25 PRC because it is easy to nest down a 6.5 PRC.

Otherwise, I think all new cartridges are going to be high pressure rounds like the 277 Fury and 7 BC.

270 caliber doesn't have the bullet selection of the 7s. No 7 compares to the saum other than the SAW but they're pretty niche. Or WSM but it's even more gone. That I'm aware of anyways I'm no expert. I want an efficient short action cartridge I can load long on a medium or long action. I don't want to be load 77 gr powder or use a high pressure cartridge that's not reloader friendly

 

[ckleeves]

7 saum could be safely re-introduced with a factory fast twist barrel since noone has really actively chambered it forever. Without having to invent a new cartridge. Back its relaunch with a big ammo push. What's old is new again. Let's go Tikka

And then what happens when a dude gets excited when he sees factory ammo on the shelf for his model 7 that’s been collecting dust in the safe and after having to single feed a round because his magazine is way too short he jams a 180 about .100 into the lands and has a pressure issue and the bullet keyholes?


Option B if your the guy making the decisions at Tikka, chamber 7 PRC where any ammo you buy off the shelf fits the magazine, isn’t jammed into the lands and stabilizes. Which has less risk for a lawsuit?

 

[goathunter]

And then what happens when a dude gets excited when he sees factory ammo on the shelf for his model 7 that’s been collecting dust in the safe and after having to single feed a round because his magazine is way too short he jams a 180 about .100 into the lands and has a pressure issue and the bullet keyholes?


Option B if your the guy making the decisions at Tikka, chamber 7 PRC where any ammo you buy off the shelf fits the magazine, isn’t jammed into the lands and stabilizes. Which has less risk for a lawsuit?

Use his brain? Read the label on the box. Isn't there ammo out there that will work in a factory 8 twist 243 that won't work in the old 243 in the gun case? Or +P 38 special ammo, for example

 

[270-300]

Most cartridges ever made have long since disappeared. If the average hunter cant walk into a gas station and buy it, then it is more or less obsolete.

 

[wind gypsy]

I had a custom 8 twist .260 built right about the turning point of the 6.5 Creed popularity. My .260 is amazing (as a custom should be), but I definitely made the wrong choice with which cartridge would be more popular.

I would bet .243 vs 6 Creed would take a similar trajectory, except for the fact that factory rifles are starting to make 8 twist .243s and 243 historically has a much larger following than 260 ever enjoyed. So I'm not sure what will happen with 243 vs 6 CM long term.

The other thing is high BC 6mm bullets aren't as long as high BC 6.5 bullets so the mag length and deep seating of bullet constraints are less of a factor on 243 than they were for 260 IMO.

 

[wind gypsy]

Use his brain?

Lots of people dont do that.

Read the label on the box. Isn't there ammo out there that will work in a factory 8 twist 243 that won't work in the old 243 in the gun case?

Not that i'm aware of. Factory 243 ammo is loaded for SAAMI spec'd twist rate.

I've had to tell people that 7.62x39 wont work in their 308 and its not 7.62 nato. Also seen people think 6 creedmoor will work in their 6.5 creedmoor. A guy came into public site in day last year mixed up between 338 wm and 338 lapua.. Lots of clueless folks out there and it would be more headache than worth it to introduce ammo that you know will just bugger up a lot of people who dont know better and then you have them pissed at you for their own ignorance.

 

[goathunter]

Lots of people dont do that.

Not that i'm aware of. Factory 243 ammo is loaded for SAAMI spec'd twist rate.

Well if tikka produces a fast twist 243 anyways give me a fast twist saum and hold the ammo! Consumers can shoot standard stuff and handloaders can take advantage of the fast twist