Will 6 Creedmoor go the way of 7 SAUM?

[Telford29]

6 creedmore is here to stay. Lots of support.

 

[Refugium]

It fits the NRLH niche well, but the recoil and ballistic differences are so minimal that I cant justify changing over to 25 due to the 6.5 having more options for every component.

They're too close to the same thing, not that either are bad.

The power factor is dumb. I'd rather see them make more rules about gamer gear, like multiple tripods, triple pulls, etc.

 

[Refugium]

Based on what I see in gun stores, the 243 must be one of their biggest sellers. Small gun stores always have some 243 for sale. A big box store like Cabela's will have at least 6 loads to choose from.

While people in this forum don't typically hunt with 90-100g 6mm bullets, a ton of people are only interested in that weight range -> low recoil + proven killer under 300 yards?

.243 is one of the GOATs. Still doesn't mean there isn't room for a modernized alternative. I can still find new ammo offering for my 6.5x55. The Creed didn't kill it.

 

[Refugium]

This thread is kind of moot. The 6 creed has already far surpassed any sort of popularity the 7 saum ever experienced. Yes it will be here to stay. It is just silly to think otherwise.

People probably thought that about the WSSMs too back in the day. Only the 300 survives.

 

[Refugium]

And here I thought it was created because MOA only works with caliber and can't be used with them commi metric boolits. Which is also why 243 is better than 6 creed. Now a 243 Creedmoor, that would be the best of them all, too bad they don't make it.


Read in a retarded redneck voice, like you would expect from a coonass hillbilly.

That's the spirit.

 

[Refugium]

Fair point, that's true. Sometimes I speak in generalities because Rokslide is mostly like minded people. I should have said stuff that nobody intending to shoot long range or take advantage of high BC bullets is interested in.

But my other point was that type of ammo is typically what's available for 6 Creed, and it fits both use cases

 

[Refugium]

I hope the 6cm sticks around!!! Just bought one and all the cool stuff to make it go boom. I’m a bit of a fudd when it comes to calibers and such.

My opinion is that the creeds have a great following and will be supported for a long time.

Things move fast. If you ask some, we'll all be shooting a 7mm Backcountry derivative in 5 years.

 

[Refugium]

You're asking a reasonable question. For the general public, 6 creed does nothing that the 243 doesn't. Also people have been shooting .243 forever. Also BC is irrelevant to almost all hunters.

(As pertains to the SAUMs...I don't remember seeing a ton of 7 SAUM on the shelves, really ever, in the years immediately after the cartridge was introduced.)

The 6.5 creed was a perfect storm. It was so much better than the gold standard for long range shooting that it got adopted overnight... at a time when long range shooting was exploding in popularity. For a few decades prior the Creed's introduction, if you went to a shooting school, the ground was covered in 308 cases and everyone's truck was full of 175 gold medal match (or 118LR). By 2015, it was nothing but 6.5 creed.

On top of which, normal hunters (who shoot a few rounds per year) were seeing that a 6.5 creed kills deer as well as a 30-06. The bullet weights are similar. It doesn't seem "light" like a .243, but it doesn't kick like a 30-06. And whatever 6.5 ammo you bought at Walmart, whether it was "target" ammo or not (ELDMs), turned out to be super reliable on game. In the past, target bullets (SMKs and their ilk) were not reliable on game.

Hard to imagine that combo of circumstances happening again.

Why do you think the 7PRC was so widely embraced across the industry? To me it is 100% marketing.

 

[Refugium]

Yes, but there is a way higher ratio of slow twist 243s in the hands of people. The new ammo wouldn’t be compatible with those. They’ve not loaded other bullets in other cartridges for this reason

That's the spirit!

 

[Refugium]

Yup, this right here. If I were gonna do another SAUM, it’d be on a Tikka LA

Medium right?

 

[Refugium]

I had a custom 8 twist .260 built right about the turning point of the 6.5 Creed popularity. My .260 is amazing (as a custom should be), but I definitely made the wrong choice with which cartridge would be more popular.

I would bet .243 vs 6 Creed would take a similar trajectory, except for the fact that factory rifles are starting to make 8 twist .243s and 243 historically has a much larger following than 260 ever enjoyed. So I'm not sure what will happen with 243 vs 6 CM long term.

It's all marketing right?

 

[Refugium]

I had a custom 8 twist .260 built right about the turning point of the 6.5 Creed popularity. My .260 is amazing (as a custom should be), but I definitely made the wrong choice with which cartridge would be more popular.

I would bet .243 vs 6 Creed would take a similar trajectory, except for the fact that factory rifles are starting to make 8 twist .243s and 243 historically has a much larger following than 260 ever enjoyed. So I'm not sure what will happen with 243 vs 6 CM long term.

There should be room for both.

 

[Refugium]

I don’t think that’s the reason. The majority of 243 rifles on the market are not twisted fast enough for 100+ grain high BC bullets. They have to make ammo works in everything, or else it turns into a customer service nightmare of people complaining about poor accuracy and the ammo being junk.

That is a legit point for sure.

 

[Refugium]

The raison d'etre of the Creedmoor family is that any rifle can and will shoot any factory load, with a high probability of it shooting quite well. Tight chamber specs and high enough SAAMI twist rates are a big deal.

True that.

 

[Refugium]

IDK....its weird.

If you like 7mm's which people buy metric tons of....the 7 SAUM should have been a no brainer hit.

In the midsized bullets your gonna get almost the same performance as 7mm rem with 25% less recoil. In the heavies your gonna outrun the 7mm rem for the same recoil. In a short action....

I mean I kinda chalk it up to bad marketing and bad timing. I think if Hornady had dropped the 7 SAUM it would have been a run away hit.

The 7mm space is pretty crowded though.

The 6mm space is pretty darn crowded too.....tons of options. My gut instinct at the moment is that 6 creed will be fine, because of the creedmoor reputation at this point.

I think the 25 creed is a interesting one...I mean really there is a couple of legacy cartridges that have never been hugely popular but popular enough in the 257 and 25-06. the creed just runs away from the 257, and more or less matches the 25-06 with less recoil, short action....I actually think there is room for the 25 creed to be something. lots of people that want a flat shooting smaller gun for deer/antelope that think a .243 is too small, and there magnum recoils too much.

So if 7SUAM failed, why did 7 PRC blow up? 100% it's marketing.

 

[Refugium]

IDK....its weird.

If you like 7mm's which people buy metric tons of....the 7 SAUM should have been a no brainer hit.

In the midsized bullets your gonna get almost the same performance as 7mm rem with 25% less recoil. In the heavies your gonna outrun the 7mm rem for the same recoil. In a short action....

I mean I kinda chalk it up to bad marketing and bad timing. I think if Hornady had dropped the 7 SAUM it would have been a run away hit.

The 7mm space is pretty crowded though.

The 6mm space is pretty darn crowded too.....tons of options. My gut instinct at the moment is that 6 creed will be fine, because of the creedmoor reputation at this point.

I think the 25 creed is a interesting one...I mean really there is a couple of legacy cartridges that have never been hugely popular but popular enough in the 257 and 25-06. the creed just runs away from the 257, and more or less matches the 25-06 with less recoil, short action....I actually think there is room for the 25 creed to be something. lots of people that want a flat shooting smaller gun for deer/antelope that think a .243 is too small, and there magnum recoils too much.

So if 7SUAM failed, why did 7 PRC blow up? 100% it is marketing.

I don't know. I think Hornady will release heavier .243 offerings sooner than later, possibly before Tikka joins the 6CM market. I emailed them awhile back about it and their response was essentially that it wasn't on the immediate list, but they didn't totally deny it either.

I'm sure they are aware of the trends towards faster twist .243 barrels. Also, 100gr .243 has been around as long as I can remember and they already offer the ELD-X in 103.

I think they are aware but don't care, which is a little scary. But yet they still offer both 6.5 Creed and .260 rem. WTF Tikka?!

 

[Refugium]

Tikka. They offer a .260 Rem and 6.5 Creed. 7 Rem Mag and 7 PRC. .243 and... WTF Tikka? I hate you. JK I love you but I hate you for sleeping on 6 Creed.

 

[Refugium]

I started this thread to bring attention to a specific question about 2 cartridges I love. I've been blown away by the response. Thanks so much every one of you for your feedback. This discussion has made me realize there might be interest in a broader convo. I would love your feedback on my latest thread "The Cartridge Hunger Games". I hope you'll check it out! Trollers welcome I honor all POVs.

 

[coyotekilla]

So... the 6cm doesn't do anything a 1:8 243 can't already do. I think it's going to be a 6mm rem.

Balistically I like the 6.5 prc over the creed, but the creed is too dug in. The 260 was a fine cartridge, just a decade ahead of it's time. The creed filled the hole perfectly between the 243 & 7-08. And the factory ammo offerings were above avg. 90% of n.american rifle hunting is after deer, either whitetail or mule, and the 6.5 is 1 of the top choices for that. And on top of that, its a fine choice for long range .

BTW I hope they release a 25prc next, in a tikka ace target.

 

[UnckleBob]

.243 is one of the GOATs. Still doesn't mean there isn't room for a modernized alternative. I can still find new ammo offering for my 6.5x55. The Creed didn't kill it.

I think the new 6CM is going to play the role of the 6.5x55 and the 243 will continue to be the big seller.

The 6.5CM was lucky. When it came out, none of the other 6.5's had achieved a dominant position.