Why the 7mm prc hate ?

[LookinforDirt]

The PRC cartridges are developed for high BC bullets and long range shooting. Only at 500 or so yards do you start to see their advantages. Just like boat tail vs flat base bullets. Under 200-250 yards you are potentially better off with a flat base bullet. And boat tails are more sensitive to less than perfect conditions in the barrel or at the muzzle.

PRC cartridges and high BC bullets are a niche. Long range over 600 yards. Hunting bullet selection, if you’re ethical and don’t use match bullets for hunting, are very limited and perform in more limited situations. A bullet that can perform well at 50 - 350 yards is a reality compared to one that performs well at 50- 1000 yards (that bullet doesn’t exist).

I have nothing against PRC cartridges and like the innovation of them and high BC bullets. Maybe the “hate” comes in because to many users think, and talk like, it turns them into a 1000 yard killer When in reality, in a hunting environment, they are just taking potshots at animals. But that’s not the cartridge or bullets fault.

 

[PNWGATOR]

The PRC cartridges are developed for high BC bullets and long range shooting. Only at 500 or so yards do you start to see their advantages. Just like boat tail vs flat base bullets. Under 200-250 yards you are potentially better off with a flat base bullet. And boat tails are more sensitive to less than perfect conditions in the barrel or at the muzzle.

PRC cartridges and high BC bullets are a niche. Long range over 600 yards. Hunting bullet selection, if you’re ethical and don’t use match bullets for hunting, are very limited and perform in more limited situations. A bullet that can perform well at 50 - 350 yards is a reality compared to one that performs well at 50- 1000 yards (that bullet doesn’t exist).

I have nothing against PRC cartridges and like the innovation of them and high BC bullets. Maybe the “hate” comes in because to many users think, and talk like, it turns them into a 1000 yard killer When in reality, in a hunting environment, they are just taking potshots at animals. But that’s not the cartridge or bullets fault.

Do what?

 

[mt100gr.]

The PRC cartridges are developed for high BC bullets and long range shooting. Only at 500 or so yards do you start to see their advantages. Just like boat tail vs flat base bullets. Under 200-250 yards you are potentially better off with a flat base bullet. And boat tails are more sensitive to less than perfect conditions in the barrel or at the muzzle.

PRC cartridges and high BC bullets are a niche. Long range over 600 yards. Hunting bullet selection, if you’re ethical and don’t use match bullets for hunting, are very limited and perform in more limited situations. A bullet that can perform well at 50 - 350 yards is a reality compared to one that performs well at 50- 1000 yards (that bullet doesn’t exist).

I have nothing against PRC cartridges and like the innovation of them and high BC bullets. Maybe the “hate” comes in because to many users think, and talk like, it turns them into a 1000 yard killer When in reality, in a hunting environment, they are just taking potshots at animals. But that’s not the cartridge or bullets fault.

Match bullets perform well near and far, regardless of what your personal feelings are on the matter. If you're ethical, it makes sense to load a bullet that isn't nearing it's maximum effectiveness at mid-range.

 

[LookinforDirt]

Match bullets perform well near and far, regardless of what your personal feelings are on the matter. If you're ethical, it makes sense to load a bullet that isn't nearing it's maximum effectiveness at mid-range.

No, they don’t. They are inconsistent. Unreliable for repeat performance. They only have a chance of working correctly under very specific and very limited situations. Hornady and other bullet manufacturers tell you this with no ambiguity. Personal feelings have nothing to do with it.

 

[PNWGATOR]

No, they don’t. They are inconsistent. Unreliable for repeat performance. They only have a chance of working correctly under very specific and very limited situations. Hornady and other bullet manufacturers tell you this with no ambiguity. Personal feelings have nothing to do with it.

You obviously have little to no first hand experience killing big game animals with these ‘match’ bullets. Period.

 

[204guy]

No, they don’t. They are inconsistent. Unreliable for repeat performance. They only have a chance of working correctly under very specific and very limited situations. Hornady and other bullet manufacturers tell you this with no ambiguity. Personal feelings have nothing to do with it.

Okay boomer.

 

[LookinforDirt]

As we see the (inevitable) replies coming in from the “I know more than the manufacturers and everyone else”crowd, the OP‘s question is being answered on why the PRC hate. As this thread plays out the question is being answered. Note, it is not all PRC, or even the majority, of owners but these few bad apples that create the hate. Get loud, defensive, claim no one else knows anything (even the people who design and manufacture the bullets) to justify the use of match bullets for hunting because they can’t hit the target with a quality hunting bullet. But in reality, they just know they are going to have an hard time getting a first shot hit period

Ever wonder why long range shooters want a low recoil rifle? One reason is so they can see their misses. That’s right, misses are used to figure out the rifle, ammunition, and environment variables so they can get on track to start getting hits. And these variables change nearly every time they go out and shoot. Adjustments are almost always needed. Don’t forget, a knowledgeable spotter is often needed too. That is fine for the range, competitions, targets. Highly unethical for animals. They need every bit of advantage they can get because they know the high probability of a miss. How can you possibly be in the field and have all those variables figured out to put that first shot in the vitals? Temperature, pressure, winds, humidity, compromised shooting position, compromised lighting conditions, shooting rest, fatigue, adrenaline, and more. How? You can’t. So now all the sudden match bullets are okay for animals. Because they think a little extra BC is going to make a difference. Something few to anyone would have claimed before it became in vogue to potshot animals at 700,800,900 yards.

So to answer the OP’s question, some (not all!!!) PRC shooters claim they now have heroic powers making them super shooters. It’s the bs they talk that drives the mere mortals up a wall. No one wants to really say it because they don’t want the argument or to address the elephant in the room. Enough is enough. Long range hunting is unethical. Its name actually implies seeking out the long shot. Using match bullets is highly, highly unethical. Unfortunately for these impressive PRC cartridges and the bullets designed for them, these types have adopted them for their “hunting” use and create resentment with the boasting and bull.

 

[Mike D Texas]

I don’t hate any of the Hornady cartridges but……I don’t see the need for them.

Marginal if any gains over similar cartridges but yet people go nuts over them.

If you plan to buy a factory rifle and factory ammo, I suppose they are another option.

However those aren’t the folks that are dedicated to the purpose the cartridges are stated to be for.


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[mt100gr.]

No, they don’t. They are inconsistent. Unreliable for repeat performance. They only have a chance of working correctly under very specific and very limited situations. Hornady and other bullet manufacturers tell you this with no ambiguity. Personal feelings have nothing to do with it.

Which match bullets have you had inconsistent results on game with at close and long range? This has all been covered in various threads, so I won't further muddy this one, but if consistent killing bullets are what one is looking for, quit looking at the pictures on the box and look at the evidence.

 

[Flyjunky]

As we see the (inevitable) replies coming in from the “I know more than the manufacturers and everyone else”crowd, the OP‘s question is being answered on why the PRC hate. As this thread plays out the question is being answered. Note, it is not all PRC, or even the majority, of owners but these few bad apples that create the hate. Get loud, defensive, claim no one else knows anything (even the people who design and manufacture the bullets) to justify the use of match bullets for hunting because they can’t hit the target with a quality hunting bullet. But in reality, they just know they are going to have an hard time getting a first shot hit period

Ever wonder why long range shooters want a low recoil rifle? One reason is so they can see their misses. That’s right, misses are used to figure out the rifle, ammunition, and environment variables so they can get on track to start getting hits. And these variables change nearly every time they go out and shoot. Adjustments are almost always needed. Don’t forget, a knowledgeable spotter is often needed too. That is fine for the range, competitions, targets. Highly unethical for animals. They need every bit of advantage they can get because they know the high probability of a miss. How can you possibly be in the field and have all those variables figured out to put that first shot in the vitals? Temperature, pressure, winds, humidity, compromised shooting position, compromised lighting conditions, shooting rest, fatigue, adrenaline, and more. How? You can’t. So now all the sudden match bullets are okay for animals. Because they think a little extra BC is going to make a difference. Something few to anyone would have claimed before it became in vogue to potshot animals at 700,800,900 yards.

So to answer the OP’s question, some (not all!!!) PRC shooters claim they now have heroic powers making them super shooters. It’s the bs they talk that drives the mere mortals up a wall. No one wants to really say it because they don’t want the argument or to address the elephant in the room. Enough is enough. Long range hunting is unethical. Its name actually implies seeking out the long shot. Using match bullets is highly, highly unethical. Unfortunately for these impressive PRC cartridges and the bullets designed for them, these types have adopted them for their “hunting” use and create resentment with the boasting and bull.

I can't tell if you're trolling or serious. Either way, you need to educate yourself a little bit on this subject.

 

[PRC_GUY]

I have one 7 prc built, now i just wait for good quality brass. There are always some haters , I personally like new cartridge, just leave the haters In their corners.

 

[wyosam]

Where is all this "hate"? I have not seen it. I have seen some debate on the real benefit of some of these new rounds.

All this mental masturbation over a few 100 FPS. The truth is your target will never know the difference. This applies to all the caliber debates.

I love my 7 SAUM but the 7 PRC gives me the same high BC bullet at the same speed in a factory offering so I am going to try it because I dont really like reloading.

Just remember that your 7 SAUM is a factory often, it just fell out of favor. I would trust Hornady to avoid that better than Remington though. It is an excellent example on how marketing may matter more than product quality. The 7 SAUM is a fantastic cartridge, and failed only because of marketing. Remington has killed a lot of them over the years.


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[Formidilosus]

Just remember that your 7 SAUM is a factory often, it just fell out of favor. I would trust Hornady to avoid that better than Remington though. It is an excellent example on how marketing may matter more than product quality.

See that’s the issue- people want to put it all on Hornady “marketing”. No. Ignoring why Hornady’s cartridges are successful and why others aren’t will just ensure that it’s only Hornady that is successful.

It has very little to do with fancy or pushy “marketing”, and everything to do with Hornady understanding shooters and what they want and need.

The 7 SAUM is a fantastic cartridge, and failed only because of marketing. Remington has killed a lot of them over the years.

Remington marketed the hell out of the RSUAM cartridges and it went nowhere precisely because they did not, and do not understand what shooters want or need. As a factory offering, what exactly was great about the 7 SAUM?

Poor twists, poor bullets, poor guns. Yay, recoil for a 140, 150, or a 160gr Core-Lockt with the BC of a .223.

If Hornady gave Remington or Winchester the 6.5 CM it would have died just like everything they have brought forward in the last 30 years because they are stupid- not ignorant, stupid. They would have made the 6.5cm with .25” longer case so it wouldn’t fit good bullets in a SA, loaded stupid 120gr blunt bullets in it, gave it a loose SAMMI chamber, and a 1-9” twist or worse.


Hornady is successful with these cartridges not because of marketing, but because they actually shoot and are making what shooters want.

 

[100 others]

If Hornady gave Remington or Winchester the 6.5 CM it would have died just like everything they have brought forward in the last 30 years because they are stupid- not ignorant, stupid. They would have made the 6.5cm with .25” longer case so it wouldn’t fit good bullets in a SA, loaded stupid 120gr blunt bullets in it, gave it a loose SAMMI chamber, and a 1-9” twist or worse.

Agree with Form on this one. See WSM, RUM, and entire Nosler line. They tried, and were moderately successful, but the design-by-committee mindset kept them from embracing anything other than more gas or shorter chamber. WSM and RUM families were a bit ahead of the long distance revolution so they get a pass, but Nosler really wiffed on the opportunity to beat Hornady at the high-octane precision game. Good on Hornady for gobbling up the market share. They don't even have a 27 PRC and the 6.8 western already lost to it!

 

[Formidilosus]

committee mindset kept them from embracing anything other than more gas or shorter chamber.

That’s it. That’s all the RUMs, SAUM’s, and WSM’s are- more powder or shorter than previous cartridges. Not better designed ammo and factory chambers, not better bullets, nothing. And all of those are good cartridges- they just aren’t doing anything from factory rifles with factory ammo that would make shooters go to them.

Good on Hornady for gobbling up the market share. They don't even have a 27 PRC and the 6.8 western already lost to it!

Oh there’s no doubt about that. If Hornady comes out with a 27 cal cartridge it will immediately end the other larger .277 cartridges. And, I would shoot one as they would also bring a 170’ish grain ELD-M and X out along with it.

 

[wind gypsy]

The 6.8 actually is a good design though, just funny/unfortunate that they picked a bum bore diameter to finally figure things out with.

 

[100 others]

The 6.8 actually is a good design though, just funny/unfortunate that they picked a bum bore diameter to finally figure things out with.

It is, but nobody trusts it like they would anything backed by Hornady. The worst thing they did with that round was compare it directly with the 7RM. "It does everything almost exactly the same as the gun you already have in your safe".

 

[Formidilosus]

The 6.8 actually is a good design though, just funny/unfortunate that they picked a bum bore diameter to finally figure things out with.

It is a good design. Even though it’s not the most popular caliber, I don’t think that’s the main issue. The main issues are that the bullets still aren’t great as far as BC and there are no equivalent designs for low velocity impacts like the ELD-M and X, and the ammo isn’t widely available. Winchester and Browning just don’t produce enough ammo, and generally not to the same precision that Hornady does. The ABLR is ok, but still not great BC and is expensive.

 

[Mike D Texas]

See that’s the issue- people want to put it all on Hornady “marketing”. No. Ignoring why Hornady’s cartridges are successful and why others aren’t will just ensure that it’s only Hornady that is successful.

It has very little to do with fancy or pushy “marketing”, and everything to do with Hornady understanding shooters and what they want and need.




Remington marketed the hell out of the RSUAM cartridges and it went nowhere precisely because they did not, and do not understand what shooters want or need. As a factory offering, what exactly was great about the 7 SAUM?

Poor twists, poor bullets, poor guns. Yay, recoil for a 140, 150, or a 160gr Core-Lockt with the BC of a .223.

If Hornady gave Remington or Winchester the 6.5 CM it would have died just like everything they have brought forward in the last 30 years because they are stupid- not ignorant, stupid. They would have made the 6.5cm with .25” longer case so it wouldn’t fit good bullets in a SA, loaded stupid 120gr blunt bullets in it, gave it a loose SAMMI chamber, and a 1-9” twist or worse.


Hornady is successful with these cartridges not because of marketing, but because they actually shoot and are making what shooters want.

Meh, shooters build what they want, they don’t rely on factory guns.


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[Rob5589]

Meh, shooters build what they want, they don’t rely on factory guns.


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True but, you could. That's the beauty of these newer rounds and rifles that are properly set up to shoot them.