Why the 7mm prc hate ?

[Lou270]

Pretty funny. All the prc fans pour hate on the 6.8W. I think folks get attached to what they like and anything that comes along that threatens their preferences gets the scorn. I happen to like them all and do my best to rarionalize one of everything

Lou

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

Is this something inherent to the PRCs? I would think it would be the same issues for any new cartridge.

They went with a retardedly tight chamber witn all the PRCs, basically the case head expands and can't be sized down enough after several firings for the bolt to close easily (Look up Clickers).
Not a problem for factory ammo guys but it's a bitch if you hand load, they're good rounds but underwhelming for anyone who knows how to load their own.

This is the kind of stuff I find nauseating though..

 

[cuttingedge]

I like the new offerings in the PRC line. The advantages are readily evident with just a little investigation. I also like the idea of the 6.8 Western. I just bought a 7mm Rem Mag after studying a good bit over the 7mm PRC and 6.8 Western. What settled me was the availability of rifles and ammo, and pondering the realistic types of hunting I will be mostly doing. I also do not reload so factory ammo is my only option.

I shot my 7 Mag for the first time today. I got more than adequate groups with Corelokt 140's, and great results with 162gr ELD-X's. Those 2 options should easily covers my needs for the rifle. BTW it is a Winchester XPR FDE barrel and action with True Timber Strata stock. Not expensive but it shoots just fine.

I would still like to have the 6.8 Western just because. I will most likely pick one up once rifles and ammo are easier to get.

 

[menhaden_man]

I bet it does, the standard 1:9 or.1:9.5 wont

My new X bolt cost the same as those. I shoot much lighter bullets in my Model 70 that’s about 50 years old.

 

[MuleyFever]

Where is all this "hate"? I have not seen it. I have seen some debate on the real benefit of some of these new rounds.

All this mental masturbation over a few 100 FPS. The truth is your target will never know the difference. This applies to all the caliber debates.

I love my 7 SAUM but the 7 PRC gives me the same high BC bullet at the same speed in a factory offering so I am going to try it because I dont really like reloading.

 

[OMB]

Sportsman’s warehouse today… no 7 PRC but I bet it won’t be cheap either.

View attachment 540912

Nosler has gotten awfully proud of their ammo. I topped up on 300 WM 180 gr Accubonds pre-Covid at $59/box and if I shot that gun more, I'd probably just dump the 5 boxes I have left to move to something else more cost effective. There's way too many alternative factory loadings that are just as good for 50% less in cost. Would be interested to actually hear what's actually going on at Nosler with the insane price jumps and generally not being available (I'm assuming their demand isn't that robust.)

 

[Bluefish]

Sportsman’s warehouse today… no 7 PRC but I bet it won’t be cheap either.

View attachment 540912

My scheels had 6 boxes of 7 prc, 175g eld, $55/box. Building up a 7prc on a tikka action. Hornady has made it easy to do by making it a saami chamber.
I think there are enough employees Hornady that they would make some of these cartridges even if there was not a marketing advantage for them. From listening to the 300 prc podcast, they pretty much developed it for themselves to shoot long range, then made it commercial.

 

[crgchck]

I don't see it as hate. I see it as why another new cartridge with marginal benefit over existing cartridges.

If you really like it, don't refuse to buy due to what others think.

If we were so closed minded that we thought cartridges should not improve marginally, we’d still be shooting trap doors..
improvement is improvement… and should be welcomed by all… or do you just love the cap and ball?

 

[Gila]

I don’t think anyone “hates” it or doesn’t like it. You have to appreciate it for what it is, just another choice. 7 PRC does not fill a niche, or gap in capability. It does have limitations that other 7s don’t have Right now. One is factory offerings. Not saying this won’t change in the future, but it is a consideration. The other is that it is a long action cartridge shooing LDFs. Action size and magazine limitations are issues for hand-loaders. Some actions are just too short for handloaders to really wring out what the cartridge is capable of. The Tikka T3x action for example, is too short for long action cartridges (like the 7 PRC) to shoot the handloader’s choices for LDF bullets. Magazines lengths also. The Tikka mag is maxed out at 3.37”.

 

[Pdzoller]

I am a novice hunter. I do not reload and I’m not a great shot at long range. I’m capable out to 600 yards on 12” steel and have only taken a couple animals out passed 450.

First time I read about the 7PRC I was immediately imagining myself dropping trophy class game on distant hillsides with my wife as my spotter. I’m pretty sure all I need is to re-barrel my trusty .300win.

I think the issue is just that. The cartridge literally doesn’t do anything that my current cartridge and skill level doesn’t do. I can totally see how a bunch of people who are at the same place as me would be tempted to purchase and start trying to hunt above there skill levels and outside of their financial situation. This equation makes for wounded game and a loss in confidence.

Sure, if a guy wants to try and take things to the next level and doesn’t already have the equipment to do so then by all means go ahead. Put in the time and money to develop the experience.

I just think people like an easy button but contrary to what marketing tells us, there really is no such thing in this case.

 

[Pony Soldier]

I'm not really a rifle guy and I have never seen any of these. My longest possible shot would be my front field at 500yds and I really don't consider anything over 300.

If I was going to pick a rifle/caliber and didn't reload, I would watch carefully the local supply of ammo and what choices are available. I never liked the 270 because the choices were quite limited.

The bottom line is all of these rifles are just tools. If you are particular - you will have a tool for each challenge. I don't have a great variety of challenges so I don't have but a couple of calibers. Just generalist I guess.

 

[gerry35]

They went with a retardedly tight chamber witn all the PRCs, basically the case head expands and can't be sized down enough after several firings for the bolt to close easily (Look up Clickers).
Not a problem for factory ammo guys but it's a bitch if you hand load, they're good rounds but underwhelming for anyone who knows how to load their own.

This is the kind of stuff I find nauseating though..
View attachment 540932

I had never heard of the undersized chamber issue with the PRC's until recently when I read @Tumbleweed 's article on the 6.8 Western. Has that ever been an issue with factory WSM's because with the 300 and 325 I had there was never an issue. I actually strongly considered the 7 PRC but went with the 6.8W in the end.

Hornady's marketing is effective but it is nauseating. Remember the huge build up to their huge announcement of non melting bullet tip's? We need Remington, Winchester and Nosler to step up their game to put Hornady back in their place. They have too much influence on the industry right now.

 

[bmart2622]

The 7 PRC length is 3.340, It will work in a Tikka and many have already done it

 

[ianpadron]

Guys that hate modern cartridges will claim "it ain't nothin' new boys, my (insert ancient cartridge here) has been doing the same damn thing since 'Nam"

While guys that like modern cartridges appreciate not having to build a custom throated, twisted barrel, run into mag length constraints, and reload their own ammo just to make an older cartridge into something it was never designed to be.

 

[bmart2622]

^^^^Nailed it!!

 

[762 ULTRAMAGA]

I had never heard of the undersized chamber issue with the PRC's until recently when I read @Tumbleweed 's article on the 6.8 Western. Has that ever been an issue with factory WSM's because with the 300 and 325 I had there was never an issue. I actually strongly considered the 7 PRC but went with the 6.8W in the end.

Hornady's marketing is effective but it is nauseating. Remember the huge build up to their huge announcement of non melting bullet tip's? We need Remington, Winchester and Nosler to step up their game to put Hornady back in their place. They have too much influence on the industry right now.

I've never had that issue with the wsms, I did have a 300 PRC and the Clicker problem was stupid.
There are reamers available to give the case head around .005 clearance which will fix the issue, I'm a hand loader though so I moved on to better cases like the 30 Nos.
I do appreciate that Hornady offers awesome ELDMs at a fair price though, and actually keeps up with demand somewhat.

 

[Sykes]

Cause it's new

 

[Gila]

Remarkably, one of the best cartridge cases ever designed to shoot 7 mm LDFs is over 60 years old! The 284 Winchester and it’s derivatives. No factory ammo though. It’s little brother the 6.5 x 284 Norma is no slouch either, if you are after a creed more killer. The very first rebated rimmed case. The choice of F-class!

The SAAMI standard COAL (cartridge over all length) for LONG ACTION CARTRIDGES is 3.34”. The 30’06, 270 Win, 300 WIn Mag, 7 PRC etc. etc are all max 3.34”. Obviously, the reason is ammunition compatibility in production rifles. Some production rifles have a certain amount of “slop” built in for hand-loaders who want to optimize their loads to their particular rifle. The magazines are longer for these rifles as well. However some production rifles are “tight” to the SAAMI COAL standard. The Tikka T3 is very tight with a maximum action length of 3.5” and a magazine maximum length of 3.37”.

Shooting LDF bullets is a paradigm shift over shooting shorter, bonded bullets. With the LDF bullet, the nose, OGIVE design is quite different. The bullets are very long and typically heavier. The barrels require a faster twist. The barrel chamber throats are typically long as a result. The 6.8 Western is near perfect in case design and efficiency for shooting LDFs. Short, squat cases with optimized shoulder angles are what is needed to shoot LDFs. You have to seat the bullets long, or the bullets stick too far down into the case and infringe on powder capacity. Also because of the bullet design, the bullets need to get closer to the lands to be accurate. Some LDFs tolerate a good bit of jump but some other bullets aren’t as accurate either. The “real estate” has to come from somewhere.

I have a Tikka T3x in 300 win mag. I love the rifle, it shoots lights out and is very comfortable to shoot. It shoots Accubonds very well. I am trying to get a 200 ELD-X to give me optimal perfromance but the jury is out if it is possible. The LDF bullet is too long and sticks way down into the powder column. Also, the OGIVE jump is very long. I need a cartridge length of about 3.52” to optimize this bullet In my rifle. But the magazine is maxed out at 3.37”. Bottom line is I need to use the shorter bonded bullets to optimize my rifle. Which I don’t mind Since I can reach out to 500 yards which is where I am comfortable.

 

[gerry35]

I've never had that issue with the wsms, I did have a 300 PRC and the Clicker problem was stupid.
There are reamers available to give the case head around .005 clearance which will fix the issue, I'm a hand loader though so I moved on to better cases like the 30 Nos.
I do appreciate that Hornady offers awesome ELDMs at a fair price though, and actually keeps up with demand somewhat.

Thanks for the info. Glad I went the Winchester route. Petersen does offer the Nosler series so it's good guys can get premium brass. Hornady does keep up better than most which is a good thing in their favor.

 

[Rob5589]

Remarkably, one of the best cartridge cases ever designed to shoot 7 mm LDFs is over 60 years old! The 284 Winchester and it’s derivatives. No factory ammo though. It’s little brother the 6.5 x 284 Norma is no slouch either, if you are after a creed more killer. The very first rebated rimmed case. The choice of F-class!

The SAAMI standard COAL (cartridge over all length) for LONG ACTION CARTRIDGES is 3.34”. The 30’06, 270 Win, 300 WIn Mag, 7 PRC etc. etc are all max 3.34”. Obviously, the reason is ammunition compatibility in production rifles. Some production rifles have a certain amount of “slop” built in for hand-loaders who want to optimize their loads to their particular rifle. The magazines are longer for these rifles as well. However some production rifles are “tight” to the SAAMI COAL standard. The Tikka T3 is very tight with a maximum action length of 3.5” and a magazine maximum length of 3.37”.

Shooting LDF bullets is a paradigm shift over shooting shorter, bonded bullets. With the LDF bullet, the nose, OGIVE design is quite different. The bullets are very long and typically heavier. The barrels require a faster twist. The barrel chamber throats are typically long as a result. The 6.8 Western is near perfect in case design and efficiency for shooting LDFs. Short, squat cases with optimized shoulder angles are what is needed to shoot LDFs. You have to seat the bullets long, or the bullets stick too far down into the case and infringe on powder capacity. Also because of the bullet design, the bullets need to get closer to the lands to be accurate. Some LDFs tolerate a good bit of jump but some other bullets aren’t as accurate either. The “real estate” has to come from somewhere.

I have a Tikka T3x in 300 win mag. I love the rifle, it shoots lights out and is very comfortable to shoot. It shoots Accubonds very well. I am trying to get a 200 ELD-X to give me optimal perfromance but the jury is out if it is possible. The LDF bullet is too long and sticks way down into the powder column. Also, the OGIVE jump is very long. I need a cartridge length of about 3.52” to optimize this bullet In my rifle. But the magazine is maxed out at 3.37”. Bottom line is I need to use the shorter bonded bullets to optimize my rifle. Which I don’t mind Since I can reach out to 500 yards which is where I am comfortable.

And that's where it ends for the .284. Not to mention no factory guns chambered/twisted for modern bullets. And I love the 284, my last match gun was so chambered. The 7PRC is all the good, and with factory ammo. For a non hand loader that wants great performance with modern .284 bullets, the 7PRC could be that cartridge. That is the appeal.