Why Match/Target Bullets For Hunting

BBob

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About 25 min into this blog Hornady discussing using eldm for hunting (and why they dont recommend it):
Nothing about his statement showed that they have tested any ELD-M for hunting (why would they as they are a match bullet) but out in the real world many have used lots of them and lots of them do work and do work consistently. This reminds me of the old days when Berger was outspoken about not using the original thin jacketed VLD's on game but after much hand wringing they became accepted as a normal Berger "hunting" bullet. Same for Sierra and the TMK's and SMK's. Lots of those work very well and consistently on game. Just because a manufacturer says you shouldn't "just because" doesn't mean it won't work and work well. They are just covering their hind quarters.
 

BBob

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Hit probability is not really useful without context. For ex at what range are all hits in a 12” diameter circle for say a .5 vs .6 BC bullet. That will tell you how much BC improves things everything else being equal. I did the math a while back and rule of thumb I came up with is each .1 increase added about 50 yards. Wind doping ability is vastly more important than BC for anything beyond “traditional” long range for anything more than few mph wind as being off even couple mph is a miss at long range regardless of BC

Lou
I think that was covered and explained pretty well on page one.
 

Lou270

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I think that was covered and explained pretty well on page one.
I dont see it other rhan 20% hit rate incease with higher BC. I am curious on others’ interpretation of that for hunting. 20 percent sounds significant but what is important is bullets landing inside the kill zone after factoring in all the variables. Increasing BC certainly increases this range but is it 25 yards or 300 yards. 20 percent means nothing without context. As noted I came up with my own rule of thumb but like to have something to compare to

Lou
 

Lou270

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His examples show the 20% increase at a distance of 549m (500yds).
I will rephrase my question as maybe not clear. The post says the hit percentage increased from 30% to %50 on a 12 in target at 549 meters. So for deer sized game we would want a 100% hit rate on a 12in target. At what range do we get a 100% hit rate on a 12in target with the higher and lower bc bullet. That to me is a more useful example of quantifying bc for hunting purposes vs steel where misses may not matter

Lou
 

EJFS

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I will rephrase my question as maybe not clear. The post says the hit percentage increased from 30% to %50 on a 12 in target at 549 meters. So for deer sized game we would want a 100% hit rate on a 12in target. At what range do we get a 100% hit rate on a 12in target with the higher and lower bc bullet. That to me is a more useful example of quantifying bc for hunting purposes vs steel where misses may not matter

Lou
This gets to the heart of my question as well. What hit rate is do you consider ethical for hunting?
 

Rich M

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This gets to the heart of my question as well. What hit rate is do you consider ethical for hunting?
Kill shot every shot is ethical. Anything less is unethical.

If kill zone is 8 inches, then you have to be able to put every bullet into an 8-inch circle. Ditto for 12 inch, 16 inch.

Why someone would shoot at an animal and know that he is guarantied to make a bad hit/miss say 1/3 (33%) of the time is beyond me. That is 'unethical". I'd call the shooter some other stuff too including irresponsible.
 

EJFS

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Kill shot every shot is ethical. Anything less is unethical.

If kill zone is 8 inches, then you have to be able to put every bullet into an 8-inch circle. Ditto for 12 inch, 16 inch.

Why someone would shoot at an animal and know that he is guarantied to make a bad hit/miss say 1/3 (33%) of the time is beyond me. That is 'unethical". I'd call the shooter some other stuff too including irresponsible.
Exactly, which is why the super sniper crowd doesn't like to answer that question.
 

Formidilosus

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Exactly, which is why the super sniper crowd doesn't like to answer that question.

There is no 100% hit rate. Words mean things- 100% literally means EVERY SINGLE ROUND FIRED. Every single hunter has and will miss an animal. Saying “I only take shots where I’ll hit 100% of the time” is nothing but mental masterbation.


My criteria for shooting is an extremely high probability (+/- 95%) that I will be standing over that animal when it is over. In the last 100 game animals, I have missed 3 shots total, and have not wounded a single animal. In the last 200 animals, I have missed 4 animals total, and ended up killing one of those on a second shot- again, no wounded and none lost. Those shots were from less then 10 yards, to 803 yards.
 

EJFS

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Totally valid response, and point well taken. I've missed.. we've all missed. I hope that most hunters are disciplined enough to pass shots that are less than "extremely high probability" which is really the best we can hope for. Thanks for the detailed reply, the curmudgeon in me is satisfied for now 🤙
 

Lou270

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There is no 100% hit rate. Words mean things- 100% literally means EVERY SINGLE ROUND FIRED. Every single hunter has and will miss an animal. Saying “I only take shots where I’ll hit 100% of the time” is nothing but mental masterbation.


My criteria for shooting is an extremely high probability (+/- 95%) that I will be standing over that animal when it is over. In the last 100 game animals, I have missed 3 shots total, and have not wounded a single animal. In the last 200 animals, I have missed 4 animals total, and ended up killing one of those on a second shot- again, no wounded and none lost. Those shots were from less then 10 yards, to 803 yards.
There is no 100% hit rate for what you are describing which is irrelevant to the model on h. However for this wind model there is a 100% hit e
 

Carl Ross

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My criteria for shooting is an extremely high probability (+/- 95%) that I will be standing over that animal when it is over. In the last 100 game animals, I have missed 3 shots total, and have not wounded a single animal. In the last 200 animals, I have missed 4 animals total, and ended up killing one of those on a second shot- again, no wounded and none lost. Those shots were from less then 10 yards, to 803 yards.
197/200 is not 95%, you're going to have to get more reckless...
 

Formidilosus

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There is no 100% hit rate for what you are describing which is irrelevant to the model on h. However for this wind model there is a 100% hit e

I didn’t address that. Do you want me to run it and find where the 100% range is?
 

Lou270

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I didn’t address that. Do you want me to run it and find where the 100% range is?
Sorry! Hit send early…. That would be interesting data. For ex what range are 100% at lower bc and what range are 100% at highet BC. This to me gives a better context of benefit of high BC
 
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Sorry! Hit send early…. That would be interesting data. For ex what range are 100% at lower bc and what range are 100% at highet BC. This to me gives a better context of benefit of high BC
Do not believe there is 100%. Seen one guy miss the same moose under 50 yards more than once on multiple days. Think the grand total was about 17 total shots with none over 100 yards before he finally got a kill shot.
 

Lou270

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Do not believe there is 100%. Seen one guy miss the same moose under 50 yards more than once on multiple days. Think the grand total was about 17 total shots with none over 100 yards before he finally got a kill shot.
There is no 100% agree at any range. This experiment is showing impact of wind, bc, etc with shooter error not factored in or if is factored in probably as a moa component
 

Harvey_NW

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Kill shot every shot is ethical. Anything less is unethical.

If kill zone is 8 inches, then you have to be able to put every bullet into an 8-inch circle. Ditto for 12 inch, 16 inch.

Why someone would shoot at an animal and know that he is guarantied to make a bad hit/miss say 1/3 (33%) of the time is beyond me. That is 'unethical". I'd call the shooter some other stuff too including irresponsible.
archery-guys.jpg
 
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