Why do we buy soft shells?

Macintosh

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The "holy grail" of outdoor outerwear is a jacket and pants that are stretchy and quiet, completely protect you from the wind and all precipitation, yet breathes perfectly preventing you from getting wet from your own perspiration.

You can approach this from either direction...ie you can try to make waterproof stuff more breatheable, OR you can try to make breatheable stuff more water-resistant. But so far, no one has managed to do both perfectly.

Softshells simply approach this from the perspective of 90%...ie 90% of the time it's not pouring rain, and 90% of the time we arent sprinting uphill at max aerobic capacity. Yes, there are exceptions in climate (SE AK) and activity (nordic skiing, mtn running, etc), but for most of us a garment that functions really well for that 90% of the time when we're putting out moderate heat output and the weather is somewhere between "clear/windy" and "very light precip", nothing combines breatheability with light to moderate weather protection better than a stretch woven softshell. And yes, even though Im a fan it could be redundant for a backpack hunter that still needs to bring the rain gear.

This is what I consider a softshell: https://www.kuiu.com/products/attac...BHoB4upOW0f79IBBEB0aIYSnZwCHxtuBoCJh4QAvD_BwE The softshell jackets I really like are all made of fabric like this--they rely on a DWR and a tightly woven fabric to shed very light moisture (on the order of a short drizzle, light snow, light frost or snow on branches, etc), they cut maybe 50% of the wind, but they are exceptionally breatheable. And, they are very durable in brush, they stretch so they dont need to be hugely oversized, and you can layer up or down to wear them in about any temp.

I agree on the laminated softshell fabrics like windstopper and similar--to me those are like "it's not waterproof, but at least it's bulky and doesnt breathe".

@dreamingWest Grid fleece is just old-school fleece with air pockets built-in--you can get it to be a little lighter for the same warmth, or a little warmer for the same weight/bulk. Are you referring to a fleece with a harder face fabric?
Those guide jackets are a bonded softshell--its a stretch/woven outer face, glued to a fleece liner--the glue itself functions sort of like a laminate in that it blocks some wind. If cheap glues are used it functions like a plastic bag and sucks, Toray is a pretty legit company so I imagine the fabric used in that piece the bonding agent is either intermittent or its porous so there is some breatheability. Depending, that's going to be somewhere on the spectrum between a stretch-woven softshell and a laminated softshell.
 
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mtwarden

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Windstopper's hydrostatic head is 10,000, so it's pretty waterproof- probably not quite "raingear", but approaching it. It's also very wind resistant.

Where it falls down is it doesn't breathe that well.

I've got an old Sitka Flash pullover (Windstopper) that I use for raingear when I'm only expecting lighter rain- works great for that and it's under 8 oz. Not overly great when I'm moving harder.
 

Macintosh

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yep, the laminate in WS is something sort of like regular gore tex, its just glued in between much heavier fabrics that dont have a DWR. But its not seam taped, and the fleece and other fabrics used tend to wick moisture into the interior of the jacket around your cuffs, neck, hem and through the seams. If it were to be seam-taped you could absolutely call it a fuzzy rain jacket, lots of the budget WP/breatheable jackets only support a 10000mm water column. Its stretchy and quiet though and doesnt tear when you crash through krumholz.
 
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@Macintosh Thread derail... but the fleece I'm referring to is something like a classic Polartec 200. To me the fabric is quieter, more comfortable, and less shiny. I understand why grid fleece should be warmer per weight, I'm just not sure I've ever noticed. I still have all the fancy brands grid fleece. But I still wear my old Russell APX pullover in Mossy Oak occasionally and wonder why I ever changed.
 
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@Macintosh Thread derail... but the fleece I'm referring to is something like a classic Polartec 200. To me the fabric is quieter, more comfortable, and less shiny. I understand why grid fleece should be warmer per weight, I'm just not sure I've ever noticed. I still have all the fancy brands grid fleece. But I still wear my old Russell APX pullover in Mossy Oak occasionally and wonder why I ever changed.
I love those older soft fleece's as well! I wish I could find one thatfits like the Kuiu fleece's do. Those are great too, but not quite as quiet.
 

TaperPin

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@Macintosh Thread derail... but the fleece I'm referring to is something like a classic Polartec 200. To me the fabric is quieter, more comfortable, and less shiny. I understand why grid fleece should be warmer per weight, I'm just not sure I've ever noticed. I still have all the fancy brands grid fleece. But I still wear my old Russell APX pullover in Mossy Oak occasionally and wonder why I ever changed.
I’ve started scanning eBay for old brands and models that I really like - it’s fun seeing old comfortable friends, and prices for vintage fleece in near new condition is really low.
 

fngTony

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Hunting softshells are behind. When they weigh 20+ ounces and take up the space of a cantaloupe it’s hard to justify them unless you’re going to be wearing it most of the time. There’s stuff from climbing companies that are way less bulky and heavy that I would consider but even then it would replace my midlayer not be an additional layer.

Function wise active insulation or a wind shell has replaced soft shells for me.
 

TaperPin

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Hunting softshells are behind. When they weigh 20+ ounces and take up the space of a cantaloupe it’s hard to justify them unless you’re going to be wearing it most of the time. There’s stuff from climbing companies that are way less bulky and heavy that I would consider but even then it would replace my midlayer not be an additional layer.

Function wise active insulation or a wind shell has replaced soft shells for me.
When I went through a kick of weighing everything after soaking in water and a 30 minute drip dry, softshells don’t fair well - some of the highest water weight retention as a % of dry weight. Simple fleece without a lot of bells and whistles retained the least water.
 
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They work for me in the SE, NE. I prefer them with Windstopper. I’m not walking around or hauling into the back country. Quiet and comfortable. A base layer, soft shell vest,top and bottom and a breathable rain shell will carry me in most situations I encouter. A puffy wouldnt last long in the SE and NE briars.
 

tracker12

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I've been using a Sitka Jetstream for years. I use it cause it works for me. Quiet, breaks the wind, sheds light rain and ok in a pinch. Very versatile for my use. Oh and it doesn’t pick up trash when I go thru cover.
 
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Blueman75

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I wear my Jetstream a lot during blacktail season here in Oregon. Great for the morning chill and sheds light rain really well.
 

Marbles

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I'm not included in that "we.". Well I bought two soft shells around 2014, neither saw much use and neither stayed around, so while I have bought them, I no longer do.


I do use a fleece though, general I have both a fleece and a down puffy in the field. The feece can get rained on, is good for brush busting, and can be worn under a pack. The one time I eore a puffy under a pack all compression points soaked out with sweat, making it less useful when I took the pack off.
 
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Use mine for early fall hiking and bow season. Its thick enough to cut wind(reasonably). Durable enough to walk through briars. reasonably waterproof. My soaked through after about 3 hours of sitting and waiting for ducks in a steady downpour. holds up decently against a drizzle. If wearing in late season its "baggy" enough to layer up under or wear a puffy under it.
 
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Funny, got home and my mtnops grid fleece was on the porch. They make those for guys with skinny arms!
Every piece of “technical” hunting gear I’ve ever bought that didn’t fit was due to being to tight in the arms and shoulder areas.

I get the trim fitting idea. I like it. But, I’m betting most guys who design this stuff never has/have spent a lot of time in the gym lifting heavy.
 

LostWapiti

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I have had a Sitka Jetstream since 2017 and have felt it is useless, as stated by others, it doesn't keep me warm or dry, but makes me sweat a lot. Its decent if i'm being lightly active in a light drizzle or light snow but it isn't worth carrying, it's okay for around camp and truck hunting. All I use is a puffy, quarter zip, and rain jacket when I'm out hiking.
 

remnnate

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I have had a Sitka Jetstream since 2017 and have felt it is useless, as stated by others, it doesn't keep me warm or dry, but makes me sweat a lot. Its decent if i'm being lightly active in a light drizzle or light snow but it isn't worth carrying, it's okay for around camp and truck hunting. All I use is a puffy, quarter zip, and rain jacket when I'm out hiking.
I have a Jetstream as well. In SD it is worthless because the wind always blows. I would sacrifice breathability if the darn thing would just block the wind.
 

mtwarden

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^ The only thing that's going to block wind better than the Jetstream is a rain jacket; it's not very breathable as is (a little more than rain gear, but not much more).
 

LostWapiti

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I actually feel like the jetstream does block the wind well but that is the only thing it does well in my opinion.
 
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