Why cant people accept the fact that some people dont need a drop tested scope?

[MuleyFever]

The new Leupold thread got me thinking. A person says their Leupold works fine for their purpose and someone else just cant let it go. Why?

 

[willfrye027]

Probably because the leupold guys, in the same sentence, say the drop test does not have merit or is flawed. And that starts the argument.

FWIW I hunted with a 30-06 and vortex diamondback for years and years. Killed a lot of stuff and probably never would have known or realized if it lost zero.

 

[Machingeaneer]

From my observations so far, it would seem the problem comes when either side tries to convince the other. There is a fair share of not letting go all around.

 

[MuleyFever]

Probably because the leupold guys, in the same sentence, say the drop test does not have merit or is flawed. And that starts the argument.

FWIW I hunted with a 30-06 and vortex diamondback for years and years. Killed a lot of stuff and probably never would have known or realized if it lost zero.

I get the test questions. However, the test does not mean every scope fails. Its a probability thing. But when someone chimes in that they have one that actually works people lose their minds.

Again, its about probabilities. There appear to be a lot of people that just dont understand that aspect.

 

[wmr89]

Because this is the internet, and the point of the internet is to prove you are smarter than other people and convert them to your way of thinking.

 

[MuleyFever]

Because this is the internet, and the point of the internet is to prove you are smarter than other people and convert them to your way of thinking.

Meme friendly thread.

 

[Marbles]

I get the test questions. However, the test does not mean every scope fails. Its a probability thing. But when someone chimes in that they have one that actually works people lose their minds.

Again, its about probabilities. There appear to be a lot of people that just dont understand that aspect.

Because people who state it usually do so to imply the brand is actually reliable, then they refuse to back it up, either by posting a picture of a well used scope or by sending it in to test.

 

[Dmoua]

People are dumb.

 

[Team4LongGun]

OP-it does get old.

 

[dirtytough]

The other thing I noticed is when someone has brand x that ‘works’, it’s on that person to fly somewhere or ship their scope somewhere so someone else can prove it doesn’t. I don’t think I’ve seen anyone ask if they can go shoot with that person for a day to see for themselves.

 

[5MilesBack]

All things work.......until they don't.

It's the same for vehicles. There are some guys that swear by their specific brand trucks, yet when you look at the reliability stats for that brand, overall.......they're crap. Statistically speaking, you'd be taking a big chance on it. So probability wise, odds are.....theirs is a piece of crap too. They just don't know that yet......LOL. Also, not everyone uses their equipment the same way. That can have a big bearing on how or when it fails.

On the other hand, people have differing expectations and different measuring metrics. One guy may say that his truck is amazing, but has replaced the transmission twice, the suspension three times, and the truck is in the shop at least once or twice every year.

But ya, not everybody needs a drop tested scope........until they drop their rifle scope down on the rocks and then wonder why they shot three feet off of their target. Stats and probabilities. It's their money, let them buy and use whatever they want.

 

[ARK_Ginger]

I honestly think some of it is to offer the best advice for people present and future reading the forum.

If guys insist X brand is reliable, but aren’t willing to prove it with bullets on paper and a padded drop I think it’s fair to point out the gap in their reasoning. Especially when the reasoning often boils down to ‘I’ve killed a gazillion game animals over half a century so I know it works’ and they don’t seem to realize that they could achieve all of that with a scope that has a wandering zero for the average ranges and vital zone sizes for the animals they hunt.

But also it’s the internet so we all like to argue over the littlest things.

 

[JGRaider]

Obviously, some people have way too much time on their hands.

 

[Wyo_hntr]

From my observations so far, it would seem the problem comes when either side tries to convince the other. There is a fair share of not letting go all around.

Call that a 360 win...or loss depending on if you find it entertaining

 

[BjornF16]

 

[BjornF16]

In all seriousness, a lot of the pushback to those who claim their scope is good comes down to:

1. Most folks don’t understand how statistics really speak to durability

2. Most folks are not shooting the same lot of ammo (or components) and don’t recognize scope has actually shifted

3. Folks aren’t substantiating their scope holds zero with evidence

4. Probably doesn’t matter inside 300 yards where most people are killing critters

5. A desire of people to put pressure on scope sellers to offer scopes that are actually durable (hats off to Maven for actually listening and working with Ryan and Form)

 

[woods89]

If a person wants to kill cleanly and humanely, isn't the reliability of their optical aiming device of considerable importance?

I think people do have issues, they just call them something else. It's been awhile since I've watched any amount of hunting videos, but both Fresh Tracks and Meateater had some really unique explanations a few times as to why they didn't make it happen. To me it looked like a loss of zero, but, of course, we'll never know.

I rolled my 4runner over on its roof last season, with my rifle laying loose on the back. I don't know how much it got tossed around, but I do know from checking zero after that I could have crawled out the window, chambered a round, rested my rifle on the steaming and battered hulk, and killed an elk at any point inside my range limitations. In my opinion, if a person is serious about hunting, that should be the expected result.

If individuals or entities are providing good feedback that makes companies sit up and pay attention to reliability ( and some are) I feel that can only be a good thing for all of us.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

Does every gun need a drop tested scope? I don’t think so. I have 5 centerfire rifles that I hunt with that all have drop tested scopes (223 - 5-25 tenmile, 6 ARC 5-20 accupoint, 6mm CM - 5.5-22 NXS, 6.5 PRC - 4-32 NX8, and 280 AI 2.5-15 credo). I have some rimfires with vortex pst scopes, a couple of my kids guns have psts and nikon tacticals etc. It just depends on the gun and purpose. The cheaper end of the drop tested scopes are SWFAs. I personally think they are fugly and likely will never own one.

 

[Kurts86]

I get the test questions. However, the test does not mean every scope fails. Its a probability thing. But when someone chimes in that they have one that actually works people lose their minds.

Again, it’s about probabilities. There appear to be a lot of people that just dont understand that aspect.

It’s only so much a probability thing if it a sound design that failed because of a manufacturing defect, premature component failure or similar.

If it’s a bad design or wasn’t designed for certain forces regardless of how consistently it’s made it will fail at near 100% rates when subjected to those forces.

I know of well rated consumer products that can be made to fail fairly easily when subjected to relatively small forces in tension when they are designed to be used in compression their entire life because I was deeply involved in the engineering, testing and manufacturing of them. I highly suspect this is what’s going on with these scopes. They have a force rating designed only for recoil forces and not side impacts.

I like the drop tests. As much as they are a bit Bro Science I’ve seen plenty of drop test and incline impact machines doing the exact same thing in a slightly more controlled manner in engineering labs. Designs have baseline quantitative requirements meant to simulate real world use. They are never 1 to 1 accurate but they tell you a lot about what’s going on and accelerate lifetimes of use and abuse to hours or days.

 

[JGRaider]

Nobody ever answered the question presented above a few posts......why do a random number of internet folks care what someone they've never met and never will meet, is hunting with, whether it's scope, rifle, cartridge, clothing, etc? Baffling to me how/why people waste time doing so.