Why are NR still applying in North Dakota for deer?

[Thomas11]

I guess I was under the impression u could draw archery tags fairly easy

 

[fulldraw1972]

I guess I was under the impression u could draw archery tags fairly easy

Last year there was 2236 applicants with 300 tags given out.
62 tags were awarded to zero preference point holders.
I have zero points.

 

[WCB]

Lifetime Member of MDF and have went to many MDF banquets in western ND back when i lived there. I also purchase a couple hundred dollars of MDF North dakota raffle tickets every year. Top prize is statewide MD tag (odds better than actual lottery) with proceeds going to PLOTs program

The money going to PLOTs is a HUGE red flag. It does ZERO for habitat it simply pays a farmer to plow the shit out of their property and double dip with crop income and plots money. Terrible use of funds.

 

[WCB]

Wow. Thank you for sharing.

This is incredibly depressing. Have the odds always been this bad for NR? I've been building points for the past 4 years.

So to answer your question, the reason I was applying as a NR is I was either looking at the resident stats and mistook those as the same for NR, or something has changed in the last year or two since I last looked because I was apparently mistaken that I would have a chance at drawing once I got to 6-10 points. I live in Montana and rarely see a mule deer I get excited about, I actually thought NoDak was an under-the-radar mule deer state since it isn't mountainous. Guess I was wrong there too lol.

This sure seems like a borderline scam. I accept responsibility for not doing further research, and at $5/ year IIRC I'm not out much, but can anyone find an example of another legal lottery where they are accepting tags/entries for a prize that doesn't exist??

No the odds used to be pretty good. Early 2000s you could get a tag as an NR depending on unit almost every other year (at least whitetail tags)...We have a place in a highly desired unit and it moved to about every 4-5 years from 2010s till 2020ish. I had 5 points then figured the next year Id get one...now @ 11pts and no tags made it to the general draw because of the NR Gratis AND the OUTFITTER/GUIDE tags, which is a complete B.S. program. You don't even have to be a deer guide or take clients. These guys basically apply for the tags their buddies want and sell them for whatever price they want to. "Outfitters/guides" get up to 50% of the Whitetail tags.

I talked to NDG&F head of licensing or something like that probably 5 years ago, and asked him the very question: how they can sell points/applications and no tags actually go for the draw? His response "it's only $10".

I believe like you it is a scam to sell $10 points for something that doesn't exist. They also hide how the tags are allocated pretty well.

Also, THERE ARE ZERO REASONS TO KILL MULE DEER DOES ANYWHERE IN THE U.S.

 

[Big Sky Guy]

You don't even have to be a deer guide or take clients. These guys basically apply for the tags their buddies want and sell them for whatever price they want to. "Outfitters/guides" get up to 50% of the Whitetail tags.

So we just need to find some North Dakota residents that are willing to help us out by getting the tags and then selling for a reasonable price? Is this the same for mule deer as well?

I talked to NDG&F head of licensing or something like that probably 5 years ago, and asked him the very question: how they can sell points/applications and no tags actually go for the draw? His response "it's only $10".

I believe like you it is a scam to sell $10 points for something that doesn't exist. They also hide how the tags are allocated pretty well.

Right, crazy. But if you or I sell $10 or even $5 lottery tickets for a gun raffle for a gun that doesn't exist doesn't that makes the drawing/lottery illegal/scam? I think the way they must be getting around it is they can say your point is then valid for future "possible" tags that will be drawn?

 

[WCB]

So we just need to find some North Dakota residents that are willing to help us out by getting the tags and then selling for a reasonable price? Is this the same for mule deer as well?

They have to have guides license...it is Whitetail only and has to be sold to a NR. No need to meet, guide, help etc. Buy it for $250 (I believe that's what it is) and sell it for whatever they want to. Unit I apply for (we have a house there) usually has around 10 NR tags a year...5 automatically gone to "outfitters/guides". That leaves 5. Oh but wait. NR landowners get first dibs through the Gratis draw. Last couple years ZERO have made it to the general draw BUT still get charged a $10 point/App fee.

 

[DC93]

As a ND resident I’m unsure why I still apply for a mule deer rifle tag. Draw one every 5-7 years

 

[Jaden Bales]

So we just need to find some North Dakota residents that are willing to help us out by getting the tags and then selling for a reasonable price? Is this the same for mule deer as well?


Right, crazy. But if you or I sell $10 or even $5 lottery tickets for a gun raffle for a gun that doesn't exist doesn't that makes the drawing/lottery illegal/scam? I think the way they must be getting around it is they can say your point is then valid for future "possible" tags that will be drawn?

The wild point you raise is that there are multiple states that let people apply for tags that aren't offered in a NR pool. Oregon, Montana, Wyoming, Utah...it's a common thing.

Even talking about Idaho with the random draw. In theory, you have a chance of getting your name pulled before a resident, but never is a NR tag guaranteed in moose, sheep, goat, etc.

 

[Big Sky Guy]

The wild point you raise is that there are multiple states that let people apply for tags that aren't offered in a NR pool. Oregon, Montana, Wyoming, Utah...it's a common thing.

Even talking about Idaho with the random draw. In theory, you have a chance of getting your name pulled before a resident, but never is a NR tag guaranteed in moose, sheep, goat, etc.

Did not know that, I’m pretty content hike-hunting Montana every year so don’t pay much attention to NR stuff. I just know there are rules/laws with raffles and lotteries but not super familiar with those other than they exist.

Sounds like a great class action lawsuit!