Which Red Dot for a Pistol?

[slowr1der]

The Holosun 507c is absolutely a better optic than a Trijicon RMR. It has better glass, a bigger window better electronics and cost less while maintaining a high level of durability. The RMR is a legacy product with a bottom load battery, really blue glass tint and a tiny window because the ear shaped frame eats up window size. The RMR is American made and super durable and 5-10 years ago they were the only viable pistol optic so they have a massive presence for that reason. The RMR replacements just came out a month or 2 ago so RMR’s are cheap right now and the new stuff is still unobtainable.

Both Holosun 507c/RMR’s are rapidly being replaced by closed emitter dots like the Holosun EPS and Aimpoint Acro P2. The whole market is shifting that way and I would chose a closed emitter optic on a G20 for weather resistance alone.

There is no reason to run any Burris/Leupold red dot. They offer no advantages over a Holosun. Pick between Aimpoint, Trijicon and Holosun based on price and features.

I'm not 100% against a Holsun and many of my colleagues are big fans. The biggest issue with the to me is a lack of lifetime warranty. We've run a bunch at work, as have many co-workers. While I've seen they are fairly solid, but I also know that just like the others, they fail. I'm concerned about having to buy another one when it fails after the warranty is over. If they offered the lifetime warranty of the competitors, I'd probably have already bought one.

 

[slowr1der]

You keep saying cost/warranty aren’t the main factor but then explaining why they are. Durability and reliability should be the only criteria. You’ve been given some good advice here, figure out if you want and open or closed emitter, pick between Holosun or trijicon, maybe aim point.

For what it’s worth, I have 4 RMRs all over 5 years old. Batteries last over 2 years, I’ve never had to rezero after a swap. The debris concern with open emitter is valid, not so much for ruining the sight, but occasionally for blocking out the dot. That’s a big deal for some, others not so much. I believe trijicon has a $100 rebate for RMRs right now, so with some looking you should be able to get one under $400.

I thinks it's less that cost is a factor and more so that the warranty is. I don't mind spending a little bit more now for a better optic. What I do mind is having to respend that $500 every 5 years, versus spending $250 for a competitor now and knowing it'll either be repaired the rest of my life, or be replaced until then. If the reviews on the Trijicon were that it never failed, I wouldn't worry about. The problem is that there is post after post on various sites of them failing just like the others. That worries me when it's 2x the price and has a short warranty. The Trijicon is back in the running for me, but that's a really hard pill to swallow.

 

[slowr1der]

I think you will be unhappy with the two you are leaning towards. A warranty means nothing when you have a failed optic in the field or when you need it.

Is it a work specific discount? Expertvoice gets me 40% off trijicon. Not only military, it extends to DOD and government contractors as well.

That's kind of what I'm thinking. I'm definitely unhappy with my current Razor failing after light use. I was hoping it was a fluke, but the more I read, I'm not sure it was. Trijicon told me they offer a discount through Expert Voice, which I applied for. It says I should hear back in 2-3 days, although our company wasn't initially listed in there. So we'll see what that turns out to be. The other companies mentioned offer the discount with direct ordering through them. If if could get the Trijicon for close to the same price as the others it'll make the decision even tougher. Currently it's hard to justify 2x the price with a 5 year warranty vs a lifetime warranty of the competition.

 

[rileybassman]

I have 6-7 holosuns - love them and never had any issues with any of mine. Had one on a 3 day hunt where it was pouring the entire time. No issues, fog, clogging etc. Can't beat them for the value prospect, and compared to a standard RMR, they are much more feature rich too.

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[Rock-o]

Trijicon RMRcc.

 

[Rock-o]

Too much support for China in this thread.

 

[Osteodoc08]

I have several Trijicon RMR variety after using some of the lesser ones from Vortex, Bushnell, Burris. I always come back to the RMR. I do have a Leupold DeltaPoint that sits onto of one of my 41 Mags that I launch heavies out of with stiff loads of 296 and 11FS that has held up well.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I will throw in a couple of thoughts. For context I shoot uspsa / idpa / steel challenge a good bit so I see a lot of handguns with dots. I personally own holosun, rmr, sro, vortex, leupold and c more, but also see a lot of optics in competition.

on the glock, get the gen 5 mos and avoid having to send it off to get cut.

- vortex - fine. Mine hasn’t been a problem but I have had enough stuff go back to vortex that I am suspect of it’s durability. I see a number of issues with vortex sites and other shooters.
- leupold - fine but the back up iron sights they require are extra tall and don’t work with all holsters.
- rmr - fine, super durable, regarded as the top of the heap by many. Window is not the greatest site picture but it works fine once you train it. Only real issues is that it has to be unmounted to change battery. Not the end of the world until you strip a screw head and your gun is down while you wait for the fix/replacement. Get a battery cover plate for mounting to help water leakage - the base is not covered under the optic.
- sro - great site. Awesome field of view. Tall on the gun. my favorite for gun games but there are some videos circulating of cracked glass. I wouldn’t have one on a carry or field gun. My main one died and was replaced under warranty. I have seen a few others go down at matches.
- holosun - these things just work. Selectable reticle pattern. Battery easy to change. I have 4 and all of them (3x on carry guns and 1 on a competition gun) and have not had any issues at all. Setting feelings about Chinese stuff aside, they have the features that trijicon should have.
- closed emitters like an acro - seems like a lot of people are going to these. The projector is enclosed by glass so you can’t get dirt/snow/crud that will take down your sight. My next site will be a closed emitter of some sort.

pay attention to how you mount it. Clean and degrease screw holes and hardware. Use loctite. Get a good mounting plate like CHPWS. If you don’t, you optic can shoot loose.

lastly, train with it. I have to slightly adjust my form to get the best sight picture through a dot vs irons.

 

[Wildhorse]

Ran a lot of RMR over the years as well as quite a few holosuns and have had no issues with any of them actually really enjoy using them

 

[Encore4me]

I bought a S&W 10mm to use in Alaska as a backup gun. I went with a Holosun red dot. After about 15 shots with the original screws the sight broke off. It appeared that the screws sheared right off. I looked around on the internet and found some upgraded screws for the Holosun and S&W, after about the same number of shots these sheared off also. I ended up taking the sight off, I don’t trust the set up anymore. It wasn’t Holosun fault, I think it would have happened with any sight. I was using heavy rounds from Buffalo Bore and Underwood.


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[ContactSix]

I'm hoping to pick up a Glock in 10mm soon with the MOS system. I'd like to add a red dot on top to use for deer hunting. I just don't have much experience with micro dots. The only two I've had have been a Burris FastFire 3 and a Vortex Razor. I have no complaints about the FastFire 3, but it's been on a 22. So I'm not sure it's a fair comparison. The Razor has been a disappointment because it recently failed despite really not having much use. On the plus side Vortex did replace it quickly for me. While it was working, I was pretty happy with it.

So that's led me to research other options. I think I've pretty much ruled out the Trijicon RMR line despite it initially being my original #1 choice. I know the warranty doesn't mean everything and that the best warranty is one you never have to use. I'd prefer durability over a warranty, but I'm just seeing too many reports of the RMR failing to feel comfortable with a 5 year warranty. I'm seeing similar amounts of complaints as to what I am seeing with the other brands, but they all have a lifetime warranty vs 5 years.

Some co-workers like Holosun, but I have the same concern. They have a 10 year warranty which leaves me feeling like I'm going to be buying another one after the warranty is up and it fails. It seems like from what I'm reading that all of these things have a somewhat limited life and failures aren't uncommon. At least with one of the companies with a lifetime warranty, they can just keep replacing it.

So that brings me back to Burris, Vortex, and Leupold. I know what my experiences are with the FastFire 3 and Razor and it has me tempted to go with another FF3. My only hesitation is that almost every thread I read people like the Vortex Venom and Razor over the FF3 due to the additional brightness adjustments, and the fact that the FF3 turns itself off. Which I don't necessarily love about the FF3. This has led me back to another Vortex Razor, although I'm not opposed to the Venom. I'm not set against it, but I'm just not sold on it either after the failure I had. I've also had numerous Vortex scopes fail, which hasn't left the best taste in my mouth.

Then there is the Leupold Delta Point Pro. Initially I thought this might be the one. I really like most everything I'm reading about it. My hesitation comes from the fact that I have been unhappy with pretty much every Leupold scope I've owned and I've tried a bunch. I've had numerous failures, none that tracked correctly, several that lost zero with slight bumps, etc. 15 years ago when you would post online about this, you'd get bashed for days by Leupold fan boys. I find it comical to see how may people now are posting the same things that I've been saying about Leupold for 15 years. I'm worried the posts about this red dot may be the same scenario. People love them based on the name. Almost every report around the time it came out is positive, while I've ready several a few years later indicating the electronics failed. Although I'm seeing this with every brand. This one really seems promising, but I'm really hesitant.

Has anyone used all three? Does anyone have any recommendations? I'm open to other suggestions as well. I'm starting to think there may just not be a perfect red dot.

Holosun 507 Comp. You’ll never regret it

 

[Duckman23]

Highly recommend the Holosun pistol red dots. They are fantastic. There are a host of options depending on your pistol MFG / frame size. Tons of guys run Holosun with no issues/great durability.