Which action to buy

[mxgsfmdpx]

Sounds like you spend a lot of time being offensive. Enjoy that

My claims are based on my personal experience and not the need to validate you, it's not worth my energy.

If it’s not worth your energy, then why quote me twice, and still try to “prove” what you’re saying is correct with zero mechanical explanation?

Suns out and me and my son are starting to shoot. Hope you have a great Sunday!

 

[TaperPin]

The anti Remington crowd that believes the cooked up fear mongering of the attorneys who sued Remington, and often refer to military tests of triggers that failed, have not usually understood what the military test consists of. It’s literally a 5’ drop onto concrete, from all sides. The vibrations and inertia are quite severe - I have no doubt few sporting firearms would survive that. Has anyone tested Tikka’s dropped 5’ onto concrete? No? I didn’t think so, and why would they.

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA587409.pdf

 

[Trogon]

An Impact NBK is only 3oz lighter than a regular LP Fuzion with full rail if I'm reading the specs right. Benefit to Impact actions is less wait time than LP and you have the choice of using a 75 degree bolt if you ever want to.

Yeah, somehow the LP fusion alpine is 3oz lighter than the nbk. From photos they look neat identical, wonder where that difference sits.

 

[Article 4]

If it’s not worth your energy, then why quote me twice, and still try to “prove” what you’re saying is correct with zero mechanical explanation?

Suns out and me and my son are starting to shoot. Hope you have a great Sunday!

More of the same from you - consistent at least.




Enjoy the shoot with your son!! I mean that

Heading out to fill 5 tags I have in 2 states for the next couple of weeks....

Op, hope we are helping you make a decision...whatever you choose its going to be a fine rifle!

Cheers all!!

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

More of the same from you - consistent at least.




Enjoy the shoot with your son!! I mean that

Heading out to fill 5 tags I have in 2 states for the next couple of weeks....

Op, hope we are helping you make a decision...whatever you choose its going to be a fine rifle!

Cheers all!!

Enjoy the hunts and good luck!

 

[Bowfinn]

There is a reason no one suggested the weatherby or other action....Do you have any data that shows the Tikka actions performing better in dirt, dust, ice etc?

This is the best I’ve seen that tests the reliability between actions with snow/ice.

If I remember correctly it also has a discussion on R700 triggers/saftey.

Ice/snow comparison between rifles

I have been asked by multiple people to do an ice and snow reliability eval between rifles/actions/triggers. Tthis is not a “test”, it is just a view at what generally happens. Doing a legitimate test requires more rifles and consistent conditions than I have. So… The rifles: 1). Tikka T3...

rokslide.com

 

[Marbles]

The anti Remington crowd that believes the cooked up fear mongering of the attorneys who sued Remington, and often refer to military tests of triggers that failed, have not usually understood what the military test consists of. It’s literally a 5’ drop onto concrete, from all sides. The vibrations and inertia are quite severe - I have no doubt few sporting firearms would survive that. Has anyone tested Tikka’s dropped 5’ onto concrete? No? I didn’t think so, and why would they.

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA587409.pdf

Tikkas pas NATO testing (it was a requirement for the Canadian Rangers). The NATO pistol drop test are 1.5 meters on to concrete, I can't find the rifle standard, but doubt it differs.

The militaries of France and Australia also use Tikkas. The assertion that Tikkas are only sporting rifles is ignorant. But yes, the Rem 700 has proven that most sporting rifles (at least in the US) cannot survive a chest hight fall.

Mil drop test? We are talking Bolt guns here.

Yes, we are, and I would be surprised if you can find a military that doesn't use a bolt gun in some capacity.

 

[WKR]

Another vote for the Kelbly Nanook
I liked my first one so much I built another rifle on a second one.
I also have a Bat vampire, but prefer the nanook short action for a hunting rifle.
I've owned and shot various factory rifle actions and IMO they dont compare to a quality custom.
Whatever you decide to get, integral recoil lug and integral pic rail are must haves.

 

[TaperPin]

Tikkas pas NATO testing (it was a requirement for the Canadian Rangers). The NATO pistol drop test are 1.5 meters on to concrete, I can't find the rifle standard, but doubt it differs.

The militaries of France and Australia also use Tikkas. The assertion that Tikkas are only sporting rifles is ignorant. But yes, the Rem 700 has proven that most sporting rifles (at least in the US) cannot survive a chest hight fall.


Yes, we are, and I would be surprised if you can find a military that doesn't use a bolt gun in some capacity.

Yep you are right Canada did buy some. You skipped the part where they replaced the trigger with a two stage with three position safety. So apparently at least the Canadian military doesn’t think much of the stock trigger.

I happy when someone buys any new rifle, I’ll probably eventually buy one when a good deal comes along. The fear mongering against Remingtons by the Tikka owners is what I can’t wrap my head around. It’s like this Tikka nationalism means it’s not enough to like, or even love, Tikka rifles, but you also have to hate all others.

 

[Marbles]

Yep you are right Canada did buy some. You skipped the part where they replaced the trigger with a two stage with three position safety. So apparently at least the Canadian military doesn’t think much of the stock trigger.

It is a 2 position safety. It adds a bolt release button, I'm pretty sure it is a TAC A1 trigger. While not the same trigger as the T3x, the overall design is the same. And the inertia of the components in a drop is unlikely to be different.

Compare that to only one Rem 700 design ever being able to pass, and that one had to have 3 internal safeties built into it.

I happy when someone buys any new rifle, I’ll probably eventually buy one when a good deal comes along. The fear mongering against Remingtons by the Tikka owners is what I can’t wrap my head around. It’s like this Tikka nationalism means it’s not enough to like, or even love, Tikka rifles, but you also have to hate all others.

When you have to create strawman arguments, you are just validating that your position is weak.

I have seen other Tikka fans also recommend Sako's, Sauer's, M70s, and others. When you have to confabulate dislike of one action style with "hate all others" you tell me you that action is not defensible with a good argument.

 

[TaperPin]

It is a 2 position safety. It adds a bolt release button, I'm pretty sure it is a TAC A1 trigger. While not the same trigger as the T3x, the overall design is the same. And the inertia of the components in a drop is unlikely to be different.

Compare that to only one Rem 700 design ever being able to pass, and that one had to have 3 internal safeties built into it.


When you have to create strawman arguments, you are just validating that your position is weak.

I have seen other Tikka fans also recommend Sako's, Sauer's, M70s, and others. When you have to confabulate dislike of one action style with "hate all others" you tell me you that action is not defensible with a good argument.

Honestly I don’t feel the need to validate my position - millions of Remingtons and more new clones than any other style are not a surprise to me, they are only a surprise to you. The design is solid and reliable. I simply don’t understand the reason for Remington bashing. If you don’t like Remington don’t buy one. If you drink skim milk do you hate whole milk?

I see the Canadian C19 is listed many places with a two stage three position safety. It’s interesting that it’s not even made in Finland, but the barrel, receiver and bolt are made by Colt Canada. The civilian version is made in Finland.

 

[MT_Wyatt]

Honestly I don’t feel the need to validate my position - millions of Remingtons and more new clones than any other style are not a surprise to me, they are only a surprise to you. The design is solid and reliable. I simply don’t understand the reason for Remington bashing. If you don’t like Remington don’t buy one. If you drink skim milk do you hate whole milk?

I see the Canadian C19 is listed many places with a two stage three position safety. It’s interesting that it’s not even made in Finland, but the barrel, receiver and bolt are made by Colt Canada. The civilian version is made in Finland.

I don’t really have a dog or Tikka in the fight…..but citing “millions” of R700s sold is not a strong basis for anything. There’s millions of “X” sold at Walmart every year. That’s not a sure indicator of a particular trait other than it’s desirable and the price is acceptable.

Millions of R700 sold is because they were a common option, and thought to be of good quality…that does not inherently make it so due to shear volume of units produced.

 

[TaperPin]

I don’t really have a dog or Tikka in the fight…..but citing “millions” of R700s sold is not a strong basis for anything. There’s millions of “X” sold at Walmart every year. That’s not a sure indicator of a particular trait other than it’s desirable and the price is acceptable.

Millions of R700 sold is because they were a common option, and thought to be of good quality…that does not inherently make it so due to shear volume of units produced.

lol
The most popular design of all time, spanning over half a century, has simply fooled all those people? That’s your argument?

 

[Benjblt]

been looking at the weatherby 307 action and mac bros element action. Wanted to see what you guys think? Is there any other actions in this price point that better?
Thanks

I haven't seen much response and feedback to the 307 action. They're only about $730. Clearly there are some better actions out there but is the quality in line with price or is it not worth it? I've also looked at the Aero Solus. Interchangeable boltheads and the short bolt throw would have me leaning this way over the 307 myself but clearly there are so many other things to consider.

 

[Marbles]

Honestly I don’t feel the need to validate my position - millions of Remingtons and more new clones than any other style are not a surprise to me, they are only a surprise to you. The design is solid and reliable. I simply don’t understand the reason for Remington bashing. If you don’t like Remington don’t buy one. If you drink skim milk do you hate whole milk?

Funny, when people take statements of facts as bashing. You are free to us a Rem 700, there is a reason the US military is replacing them. The triggers are proven weak points.

If I state that whole milk has more calories in it and can contribute to obesity, does that mean I hate it? Would you feel a compelling need to argue that skim milk had the same problem?

I see the Canadian C19 is listed many places with a two stage three position safety. It’s interesting that it’s not even made in Finland, but the barrel, receiver and bolt are made by Colt Canada. The civilian version is made in Finland.

It was a requirement of the contract that the rifle be manufactured in Canada. Nothing interesting about that, pretty common for governments to specify such things in the contracts.

Sako lists it as a two position two stage, same as the TAC A1. I doubt most of the Internet understands the difference between three positions on the safety and having a bolt release button.

The bolt release will have zero effect on drops with the safety off as specified in testing. It does eliminate the complaint about have to take the safety off to open the bolt. The two stage could make the trigger more reliable and drop resistant.

lol
The most popular design of all time, spanning over half a century, has simply fooled all those people? That’s your argument?

Your argument is that buy sheer popularity objective testing doesn't matter? My gosh, I guess we should go back to scarificators and bleeding in medicine, much longer history of acceptance by humans than antibiotics.

 

[OneShot]

Impact 707

 

[eoperator]

On the cheap
Origin-solus-tikka-707

If you feel the need to spend more $
Nbk-vesper-fusion(with alpine cut)

Options i like
Integral recoil lug & scope rail, prefit barrels, 75° bolt, manual ejector

 

[MT_Wyatt]

lol
The most popular design of all time, spanning over half a century, has simply fooled all those people? That’s your argument?

No. Popularity is not an indicator of much, and is of itself a flawed argument. I’m not making “an argument” but rather an observation. I did not imply people were being fooled. I own an R700 footprint action and have never had an ND. That doesn’t mean it isn’t possible.

Consider how many typical folks who buy those R700s shoot more than a box of ammo or two per year through them. Now of course they get carried all over the place…..and of course, no one dares chamber a cartridge unless readying a shot, due to the possibilities. And before everyone freaks out about carrying a weapon chambered……we do it with handguns all of the time.

I’ve been hearing about issues with R700 triggers as long as I’ve hunted. Why are companies trying to design better and safer triggers for them? No one is “fooled.”

 

[TaperPin]

No. Popularity is not an indicator of much, and is of itself a flawed argument. I’m not making “an argument” but rather an observation. I did not imply people were being fooled. I own an R700 footprint action and have never had an ND. That doesn’t mean it isn’t possible.

Consider how many typical folks who buy those R700s shoot more than a box of ammo or two per year through them. Now of course they get carried all over the place…..and of course, no one dares chamber a cartridge unless readying a shot, due to the possibilities. And before everyone freaks out about carrying a weapon chambered……we do it with handguns all of the time.

I’ve been hearing about issues with R700 triggers as long as I’ve hunted. Why are companies trying to design better and safer triggers for them? No one is “fooled.”

The good old Remington is the Skippy peanut butter of bolt actions - it’s not fancy or expensive, but has simply works well enough with few complaints for longer than most of us have been alive.

I feel a little funny being the very first person to let you in on a secret, but you should know the anti Remington 60 Minutes segments, and attorneys that sued Remington had a giant incentive to blow things way out of proportion. I know it’s hard to accept anyone would stretch the truth for personal gain, but it’s true. Give it a little while to sink in.

Do you remember the brother that accidentally shot his little brother when the Remington trigger “failed”? That was the defense the shooter used. Turns out the jury didn’t buy it and the brother was found guilty.

How about the guy pulling the rifle out of a closet when it went off? When the state crime lab couldn’t get the trigger to fail, that information didn’t make the headlines.

How about the mother who shot her son unloading his gun after a hunt. Sorry, but my mother has been around guns her whole life, but I wouldn’t trust her to unload a rifle while it’s pointed at me. Watching anyone unfamiliar with good handling practices, it’s amazing more aren’t shot working bolts and having fingers near triggers. Trying to jump on the trigger malfunction bandwagon is what attorneys do, but I find that situation questionable.

Weekend diy gunsmiths have always created unsafe triggers, especially those with adjustment screws. It makes me chuckle when PRS shooters dick with their triggers not knowing what they are doing and then have failures and everyone around them blames it on Remington.

It’s unfortunate, but we have become a nation of dummies and the liability laws have been used to put gun companies out of business and ruined classic gun designs. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if in our lifetime, liability laws are how the antis take all new guns off the market.

As always, I’ll buy any unsafe model 700’s for double scrap price.

 

[AZ_Hunter]

Another vote for the Kelbly Nanook
I liked my first one so much I built another rifle on a second one.
I also have a Bat vampire, but prefer the nanook short action for a hunting rifle.
I've owned and shot various factory rifle actions and IMO they dont compare to a quality custom.
Whatever you decide to get, integral recoil lug and integral pic rail are must haves.

Does the Nanook bolt lock closed when on safe?