Where to put weight, broadhead vs insert

[kfili]

I'm about to order more arrows. Current set up is black eagle vintage 400 cut to 28.5 with the regular inserts, 50 grain screw in and 100 grain heads. 45lb bow

Is there any benefit to skipping the inserts and going with heavier heads?

Also please don't crap on my set up, I have broadheads and bareshafts out to 30 and am confident- keep it to yourself!

 

[ElGuapo]

Heavier broadheads are likely to be more “Structurally sound”. My Elk setup this year is a 215 Head, on stock inserts. I shoot 100 grain inserts with 125 heads for Deer. Net/Net same weight, but much higher quality and durability in the 215 broadhead….. Ya know…. Theory

 

[Mighty Mouse]

More weight in the broadhead could (in theory) be used to increase the head's structural strength and/or cutting diameter. For practical purposes though, 50 gr isn't going to make much difference in either parameter. If you like your 100 gr heads, I'd stick with them and use a heavier insert and/or weight screw to hit your target total arrow weight instead of buying new heads.

 

[oldgoat]

It's a toss up as you can tell by the responses so far, heavier insert is probably stronger than light one and heavier heads are probably tougher than lighter ones. Unless you're hunting something really tough like hogs, shoot what you want. Just get them sharp and touch them up as needed.

 

[0815]

That's a 440 grain arrow total?
Pretty lightweight for a hunting arrow....
One question, assuming you are right-handed, does your arrow slightly point to the left looking straight over it when it is nocked on the string?

 

[ledflight]

Lighter inserts tend to be aluminum which may have weaker threading.

If you run 100gr insert and 125gr bh for example, and forget your bh at home one time, you could run to a Walmart or the like and find something you could hunt with maybe.
If you are running 200gr+ upfront and forget your broadheads, then you're SOL. Speaking from experience.

 

[Wrench]

I'd go 25gr footers and a heavier head....but I like to stump shoot every day. The footer adds weight but also eliminates to insert pushing into the shaft.

It's one of the bigger gains to be had imo.

 

[kfili]

That's a 440 grain arrow total?
Pretty lightweight for a hunting arrow....
One question, assuming you are right-handed, does your arrow slightly point to the left looking straight over it when it is nocked on the string?

Correct-
Im still pretty new to the trad game but my 3 kills last year resulted in 2 clean passthroughs and one that held up but still gave me 2 holes. I know its light but I am only shooting whitetail right now.
I have some room to chop more off the arrow- should I shorten them and bump up weight upfront? I dont want to chase a random weight if it is not needed since these are tuned right now.
Ill have to double check but I dont think so.

 

[dlee56]

Heavier broadheads are likely to be more “Structurally sound”. My Elk setup this year is a 215 Head, on stock inserts. I shoot 100 grain inserts with 125 heads for Deer. Net/Net same weight, but much higher quality and durability in the 215 broadhead….. Ya know…. Theory

I'd have to disagree with that theory, most broadheads regardless of weight have the same design at the point of attachment, but if you use a heavier insert then it's likely longer or made out of a heavier material which could help with bending and arrow fracture around the insert

 

[0815]

Here is the thing. You tune your setup with the point weight that works. If you still lack arrow weight, take out your insert and glue a diameter matching rope to the back of the insert. If you use the first third of your arrow, it gives about 40 grain and better FOC. Because rope has no bending stiffness, it will not affect your arrow flight.
I knew you were fairly new to trad, but I would still be interested where your arrow points to.

 

[kfili]

Here is the thing. You tune your setup with the point weight that works. If you still lack arrow weight, take out your insert and glue a diameter matching rope to the back of the insert. If you use the first third of your arrow, it gives about 40 grain and better FOC. Because rope has no bending stiffness, it will not affect your arrow flight.
I knew you were fairly new to trad, but I would still be interested where your arrow points to.

hmmm I am going to try this- curious how it will add weight/FOC but not affect flight?
all things equal I thought more weight forward would weaken the spine?

 

[Rob5589]

The heavier the head, the larger it becomes and in turn possibly less forgiving in flight. So I looked for something medium/heavy at 150 and made up the rest with the insert.

 

[Wilderlife]

A lot of my decisions come down to availability of points and broadheads in Australia.

125gn seems to be pretty standard at the lighter end of things.
200gn is easy to come by. If I need a lot more weight on the front of an arrow I'll look for more insert/component weight before I look to get a heavier broadhead than 200gn.

A lot depends on the draw weight and length of your arrows and all that. A couple of my hunting bows are over 60# at my draw length and I pull about 26.5 inches, so I can get a stiff arrow and really load the front up and cut it right back. People with longer draws don't have that luxury.

Some of my favourite broadheads are definitely tougher in the heavier weight - Outback Broadheads Supremes. The 130gn and 200gn are identical in size and shape but the lighter ones have aluminium ferrule and the heavier ones have stainless steel ferrule.

I'll usually tune my bows with a 200gn point as I have a lot of 200gn broadheads and heavier is better than lighter (usually, within reason) for hunting setups, when your bow is over 50#.

Recently tuned an ILF target-style-ish rig with 125gn points as I want something with a flatter trajectory for archery competitions, but I can swap out the point for some 125gn broadheads or judos and hunt smaller game if I want. That bow is about 45# on my fingers and the arrows are total 350gn.

 

[TaterTot]

More weight in the broadhead could (in theory) be used to increase the head's structural strength and/or cutting diameter. For practical purposes though, 50 gr isn't going to make much difference in either parameter. If you like your 100 gr heads, I'd stick with them and use a heavier insert and/or weight screw to hit your target total arrow weight instead of buying new heads.

Uhhhh that's a 50 percent increase in mass in the broad head. That's pretty significant. Especially when dealing with long broadheads with a high mechanical advantage like what is used for traditional bow hunting.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Uhhhh that's a 50 percent increase in mass in the broad head. That's pretty significant. Especially when dealing with long broadheads with a high mechanical advantage like what is used for traditional bow hunting.

50% sounds like a lot until you actually look at the dimensions of similar broadhead designs in various weights. An extra 50 gr might get you a little extra length, a little extra thickness, and maybe an 1/8" of extra width. You might consider those extras to be significant, but I stand by my statement that it will make little to no difference in practice. With some broadhead designs, you would gain no blade length/width/thickness...the 50 gr difference is all in the ferrule size/material or in the vents/lack of vents.

Cutthroats don't go down to 100 gr, but this comparison chart gives an idea of how broadhead dimensions change with weight:

 

[sneaky]

hmmm I am going to try this- curious how it will add weight/FOC but not affect flight?
all things equal I thought more weight forward would weaken the spine?

It will affect the spine. Any weight you add to either the front or back end will affect dynamic spine. You can't cheat science. You can do the same thing by adding weight screws to the back of your inserts. No matter the weight of the head, the threads and shank are still the same size, just have a longer lever on the front of that shank with a heavier head to leverage against those threads. A heavier insert will be a more effective use of weight gain on the front. Pair with an external collar or footer.

 

[TaterTot]

Well

50% sounds like a lot until you actually look at the dimensions of similar broadhead designs in various weights. An extra 50 gr might get you a little extra length, a little extra thickness, and maybe an 1/8" of extra width. You might consider those extras to be significant, but I stand by my statement that it will make little to no difference in practice. With some broadhead designs, you would gain no blade length/width/thickness...the 50 gr difference is all in the ferrule size/material or in the vents/lack of vents.

Cutthroats don't go down to 100 gr, but this comparison chart gives an idea of how broadhead dimensions change with weight:
View attachment 445214

Well in the example you posted going from 125 to 200gr (a 50% increase in mass) results in a, roughly, 60% increase in length. The width is maintained in this example so the mechanical advantage is increased from 1.99 to 3.37 for an increase of 53%

We must have different definitions of insignificant. Haha

 

[Bama Creek Bum]

I’m shooting Black Eagle 400’s cut to 31.5” with 225 grains up front.

I shoot Magnus Stingers 150 grain.

I needed 225 grains up front, so I added 75 grain brass inserts to get me there. Didn’t want to change broadheads.

 

[Trial153]

Insert, get the weight up so the build will be near the TAW with with 100 to 125 grain heads so you have some options. After 150 grains broadhead options get to be slimmer pickings .

I

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Well

Well in the example you posted going from 125 to 200gr (a 50% increase in mass) results in a, roughly, 60% increase in length. The width is maintained in this example so the mechanical advantage is increased from 1.99 to 3.37 for an increase of 53%

We must have different definitions of insignificant. Haha

I would agree that a higher length-to-width ratio/mechanical advantage is usually a good thing and can increase penetration potential, but I still don't think the MA difference (if any) between a 100 and 150 gr head (which is the weight range the OP asked about) is enough to produce a noticeable effect in practice.