Where to put weight, broadhead vs insert

[kfili]

Here is the thing. You tune your setup with the point weight that works. If you still lack arrow weight, take out your insert and glue a diameter matching rope to the back of the insert. If you use the first third of your arrow, it gives about 40 grain and better FOC. Because rope has no bending stiffness, it will not affect your arrow flight.
I knew you were fairly new to trad, but I would still be interested where your arrow points to.

I just tried uploading a photo from my phone but it says it's too large, arrow is just about dead straight

 

[TaterTot]

I would agree that a higher length-to-width ratio/mechanical advantage is usually a good thing and can increase penetration potential, but I still don't think the MA difference (if any) between a 100 and 150 gr head (which is the weight range the OP asked about) is enough to produce a noticeable effect in practice.

I respect your opinion sir, it depends on which broadheads we're talking about. We will just have to agree to disagree.

 

[kfili]

Alright, tried the rope insert thing. Arrows flew like complete dog crap. If I did everything exactly perfect I could sort of get them to group at 20. That did not stand with broadheads. I'll chalk this up to a lesson well learned.
On the flip side I do think want to bump up my weight some, thinking of getting heavier inserts and chopping the arrow down some. Hopefully I have enough room to cut down. If I add 100 grains how much shorter do you think I'll need to cut?

 

[Mighty Mouse]

On the flip side I do think want to bump up my weight some, thinking of getting heavier inserts and chopping the arrow down some. Hopefully I have enough room to cut down. If I add 100 grains how much shorter do you think I'll need to cut?

You could play around with the calculator on 3 Rivers Archery's website to see how weight and length affect calculated dynamic spine. It will likely say you need to trim around 2.5" to counteract the additional 100 gr of front end weight and keep dynamic spine unchanged. But take the calculator's recommendations with a grain of salt; there are factors it can't account for. The only way to truly determine appropriate dynamic spine is through actually shooting various arrows. A cheap and easy way to test more front end weight would be to use a field point test kit or to add more weight screws behind your insert.

 

[TaterTot]

You could play around with the calculator on 3 Rivers Archery's website to see how weight and length affect calculated dynamic spine. It will likely say you need to trim around 2.5" to counteract the additional 100 gr of front end weight and keep dynamic spine unchanged. But take the calculator's recommendations with a grain of salt; there are factors it can't account for. The only way to truly determine appropriate dynamic spine is through actually shooting various arrows. A cheap and easy way to test more front end weight would be to use a field point test kit or to add more weight screws behind your insert.

This right here. It also depends on where your arrow is sitting on your current tune. Are you at the lower or higher end of what flies well? I've got setups I can add 50g with no noticeable effect on my tune. And I got setups where I'm riding the higher edge and couldn't add 20gr without messing up the tune.

 

[kfili]

This right here. It also depends on where your arrow is sitting on your current tune. Are you at the lower or higher end of what flies well? I've got setups I can add 50g with no noticeable effect on my tune. And I got setups where I'm riding the higher edge and couldn't add 20gr without messing up the tune.

Ah that's true, I'm at the lower end, I have the field point kit, I guess I will play around with how much I can get away with based on how much room I have to chop.

 

[Wrench]

Go to the hardware store and buy screws and a box of washers. You can tune the weight to infinity.

 

[kfili]

Alright, tried the rope insert thing. Arrows flew like complete dog crap. If I did everything exactly perfect I could sort of get them to group at 20. That did not stand with broadheads. I'll chalk this up to a lesson well learned.
On the flip side I do think want to bump up my weight some, thinking of getting heavier inserts and chopping the arrow down some. Hopefully I have enough room to cut down. If I add 100 grains how much shorter do you think I'll need to cut?

Random follow up
I tried again with weedwacker string because I was thinking the rope was too tightly in the arrow making it act stiffer. I wasnt shooting great overall today (and didnt put a broadhead on yet) but it seemed to fly MUCH more consistently. When Im shooting better I will follow up with how the arrows fly and where it brings the weight to.

 

[ledflight]

I tried weedwacker thread once and when I hit a stump it exploded out the back. I didn't like that, I would go for softer rope personally stuffed in tight enough that it won't move around.

 

[kfili]

Shot more today, new point on went from 31 yards to 28, (bummer). Arrow weight went up 510or so. Arrows flew good and grouped at 30 for me I still wasn't shooting great though so I didn't put on broadheads yet.
New question! I got a ton of arm slap today, would this be because of adding the weight? Or was I just off today?

 

[Justin.Medcalf]

Shot more today, new point on went from 31 yards to 28, (bummer). Arrow weight went up 510or so. Arrows flew good and grouped at 30 for me I still wasn't shooting great though so I didn't put on broadheads yet.
New question! I got a ton of arm slap today, would this be because of adding the weight? Or was I just off today?

Your arm slap isn’t from adding weight it’s a form issue. Don’t get too crazy adding weight. Stick to 10-12 gpi for you draw weight. Working on your form and getting your setup perfectly dialed after your form is good is way more important. A guy can chase his tail around trying to fix a trad setup that isn’t broke. Pick a combo bareshaft tune it until it’s perfect and shoot the shit outta it.

 

[bisblue]

Too cheap for multiple sets of heads. So I shoot VPA 3 blade 125s and adjust insert as needed to get 175-225 up front depending on arrow

 

[cck311]

.400 spine arrow cut to 28.5 inches with only 150 grains up front and a 45 pound bow? That sounds like it would be stiff as hell.

 

[cck311]

That's a 440 grain arrow total?
Pretty lightweight for a hunting arrow....
One question, assuming you are right-handed, does your arrow slightly point to the left looking straight over it when it is nocked on the string?

So says the internet. 440 grains is pretty dang close to 10gpp for his bow. I will never buy into this ridiculousness that you need a 600+ grain arrow to kill anything. I shot a muley over the weekend with a 420 grain arrow and it zipped right through like he wasn't even there.

 

[kfili]

.400 spine arrow cut to 28.5 inches with only 150 grains up front and a 45 pound bow? That sounds like it would be stiff as hell.

Maybe something is wonky with my release but I was shooting bareshaft darts to 20 yards and grouping as good as I can at 30
Edit- it's off a weather rest if that makes a difference

 

[cck311]

Maybe something is wonky with my release but I was shooting bareshaft darts to 20 yards and grouping as good as I can at 30
Edit- it's off a weather rest if that makes a difference

The proof is in the pudding. If that's what works, that's what works.

 

[TX_Diver]

For 225 up front would you guys go 200gr head with the 25 gr aluminum insert? Or is there a 75gr inset that fits Easton 6.5s that I could run with 150gr heads? Or even a brass or steel 25gr insert? 340spine Easton 6.5

 

[Mighty Mouse]

For 225 up front would you guys go 200gr head with the 25 gr aluminum insert? Or is there a 75gr inset that fits Easton 6.5s that I could run with 150gr heads? Or even a brass or steel 25gr insert? 340spine Easton 6.5

I would personally pair a cheap lightweight aluminum insert with a 100-150 gr head and stack weight screws behind the insert to make up the balance of the total front end weight for 3 reasons:

1. Maximize ability to adjust weight in the future
2. Maximize broadhead selection
3. Minimize cost

Easton offers a 23 gr aluminum and 50/75 gr brass insert specifically for their 6.5 mm arrows, but pretty much any "standard" diameter insert should work regardless of manufacturer (except for Gold Tip, which run 1-2 thousandths larger than others).

 

[TX_Diver]

I would personally pair a cheap lightweight aluminum insert with a 100-150 gr head and stack weight screws behind the insert to make up the balance of the total front end weight for 3 reasons:

1. Maximize ability to adjust weight in the future
2. Maximize broadhead selection
3. Minimize cost

Easton offers a 23 gr aluminum and 50/75 gr brass insert specifically for their 6.5 mm arrows, but pretty much any "standard" diameter insert should work regardless of manufacturer (except for Gold Tip, which run 1-2 thousandths larger than others).

I have the 23gr aluminum inserts that came with it. Just considering something more durable and that would also put a slightly smaller broadhead up front. I'm looking to finish building them in the next few days though and it's only a half dozen so I'll probably just roll w/ the 23s. People have killed a ton of animals with aluminum inserts if I had to guess....

 

[Shawn Hultquist]

I would personally pair a cheap lightweight aluminum insert with a 100-150 gr head and stack weight screws behind the insert to make up the balance of the total front end weight for 3 reasons:

1. Maximize ability to adjust weight in the future
2. Maximize broadhead selection
3. Minimize cost

Easton offers a 23 gr aluminum and 50/75 gr brass insert specifically for their 6.5 mm arrows, but pretty much any "standard" diameter insert should work regardless of manufacturer (except for Gold Tip, which run 1-2 thousandths larger than others).

I tried this a couple times 25 years ago when playing around with new sticks the only issue I found was the weights would unscrew and loosen. They rattled and made noise. The solution when I found my right recipe was to glue the weights into the insert. This seemed to help. But essentially turned it into a 100 grain brass insert so I just stuck to what already worked. A one piece insert and a BH. That way there’s less places for failure. Just my thoughts.


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