When is using a Prefit barrel the right option

[Article 4]

Once you’ve bought the tools, that per barrel cost for prefits drops significantly. Gauges aren’t that expensive, and can be rented for cheap. I’ve bought prefits from a couple makers, most chambered for non-saami cartridges. Last was. 338-284, and specified which reamer they should use (they charge $75 or so for a reamer they don’t have in house). I had one cut to match dummy rounds I sent in, though I’ve found I prefer to rent a throating reamer and finish them by hand to where I want them. I’d love to buy blanks and have them fit to my actions, but I don’t want to wait a year, and don’t want to spend the money (and space) on a lathe to do them myself.


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That is definitely one option for sure. Yeah if you change barrels a lot, you want the tools. If you are like most shooters who have a few rifles, they might have to change a barrel every 8-10 years to get to 2500 rounds....some guys do that in a year.

Using a pre fit and using a gunsmith assumes they are both on point in every thing they do. For me, I use a smith or do it myself. If using a smith, I use the same one I know and trust for many years, and many other shooters do as well. Gotta plan ahead though for sure.

Go and no go gauges $80 bucks
A guy should have a barrel vise - an inexpensive one is about $100 bucks and then you have to make your own wooden or other barrel adapter to accommodate breech size
Torque Wrench - 100 bucks - barrel tightness I usually go with is 80 lbs to start and then depending what the gauges tell me, a tiny bit less or more

If you are finishing by hand, you already bought the throating tool so thats about $180 bucks

For me, if the notion is to change barrels as a regular activity, why rent? Buy them - what person doesnt love more tools!!!!

Assuming is the big issue. It all has to work either way. Headspace matters. Concentricity and accuracy of the chamber punch matters. Action specs matter and quality control of all of them matter. Maybe it shoots, maybe it doesnt but with the know how and tools, I know why. If someone doesnt wanna learn the right way, pay a smith.

I asked the question to find out who loves them and why. I think prefits are way cool but would never buy one and "just spin it on" and go shoot without knowing the how and why it is done correctly.

 

[Unckebob]

That is definitely one option for sure. Yeah if you change barrels a lot, you want the tools. If you are like most shooters who have a few rifles, they might have to change a barrel every 8-10 years to get to 2500 rounds....some guys do that in a year.

Using a pre fit and using a gunsmith assumes they are both on point in every thing they do. For me, I use a smith or do it myself. If using a smith, I use the same one I know and trust for many years, and many other shooters do as well. Gotta plan ahead though for sure.

Go and no go gauges $80 bucks
A guy should have a barrel vise - an inexpensive one is about $100 bucks and then you have to make your own wooden or other barrel adapter to accommodate breech size
Torque Wrench - 100 bucks - barrel tightness I usually go with is 80 lbs to start and then depending what the gauges tell me, a tiny bit less or more

If you are finishing by hand, you already bought the throating tool so thats about $180 bucks

For me, if the notion is to change barrels as a regular activity, why rent? Buy them - what person doesnt love more tools!!!!

Assuming is the big issue. It all has to work either way. Headspace matters. Concentricity and accuracy of the chamber punch matters. Action specs matter and quality control of all of them matter. Maybe it shoots, maybe it doesnt but with the know how and tools, I know why. If someone doesnt wanna learn the right way, pay a smith.

I asked the question to find out who loves them and why. I think prefits are way cool but would never buy one and "just spin it on" and go shoot without knowing the how and why it is done correctly.

I have my own, but most auto parts stores will let people borrow a torque wrench for free.

 

[Wrench]

How many of you check bolt nose clearance?

I was just talking to someone today that needed a variety of recoil lug thicknesses to make headspace. I explained that going away from the bolt could increase that clearance and doing so can get risky.

 

[HandgunHTR]

I hear you and glad there are some other Freebore options out there.
I have been the barrel makers floors and many of the people punching barrels are not smiths. They are trained but in no way shape or form would I call them gun smiths.

Here is my take on it. For a prefit barrel, I don't want a gunsmith. I want a machinist. A lot of the barrel guys are just that. I know a lot of gunsmiths that can do machine work, but are in no way, shape, or form, a machinist.

Additionally, in most cases nowadays the barrel makers doing prefits are using CNC turning centers to cut the threads and chamber the barrels. For those it is all about the set-up. Get that right and the machining is superb. Most gunsmiths are using manual lathes. Lots more variation in those.

 

[Article 4]

Here is my take on it. For a prefit barrel, I don't want a gunsmith. I want a machinist. A lot of the barrel guys are just that. I know a lot of gunsmiths that can do machine work, but are in no way, shape, or form, a machinist.

Additionally, in most cases nowadays the barrel makers doing prefits are using CNC turning centers to cut the threads and chamber the barrels. For those it is all about the set-up. Get that right and the machining is superb. Most gunsmiths are using manual lathes. Lots more variation in those.

I hear you. Sometimes being a machinist can trump a gunsmith but sometimes a good gunsmith knows what a machinist doesn't

My experience with CNC machines was not the same as yours. The machine can be excellent and some CNC machines are. Even still, they are only as good as the programmer and the person indicating the part....I have personally witnessed so called "machinists" who were worse off with the CNC reamer than someone doing it with "old school" machines.

 

[Mike D Texas]

Out of all of the valid points he uses in his post you chose to hone in on that?


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[Mike D Texas]

I've got a prefit from a barrel maker (I did send it in so they could time flutes and gauge it for me) that is easily my best shooting barrel. I also had a well known smith cut me a chamber .003" undersized at the web, and after I locked the bolt up first shot with a mild charge and sent it back to him, he told me "well it closed on my gauge, so I did my job". Which caused me to send it to another smith that measured the fired brass with a ball mic and instantly discovered the problem.

Regardless of smith cut or prefit, there is no such thing as a sub 1/4, or even 1/4 MOA, on demand barrel in existence. There are some benchrest rifles out there that have shot aggs of .2, but aggs are averaged. They also don't correlate POI of the groups, just size.

Whose reamer was used on your example above?


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[Harvey_NW]

Whose reamer was used on your example above?

I don't know the makers of any of the reamers.

 

[chindits]

I’ve only put on two prefits and I was no where near the cost in this post. Maybe inflation has changed the price, but I’m not hunting sparrows at 600 yards or shooting at a range where my groups or rifle costs are a matter of pride. I’m probably a year out from needing another barrel. For a hunting rifle I’ll probably get another run of the mill prefit and suffer with sufficient accuracy.

 

[Mike D Texas]

I don't know the makers of any of the reamers.

Understood.

Only way I can see that happening is an out of spec or excessively worn reamer or overpressure rounds.


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[Harvey_NW]

Understood.

Only way I can see that happening is an out of spec or excessively worn reamer or overpressure rounds.

It was under spec, I was just irritated with the way it was dealt with by the first gunsmith. The second one (Kinport Peak Rifles) was much more helpful, and immediately diagnosed, and fixed it.

 

[Article 4]

What it should look like

 

[JohnJohnson]

Stumbled across this article about PRS shooters using/not using prefits, as well as some good information on them, so figured I'd throw it in here.

Pre-Fit Barrels: Everything Your Gunsmith Wishes You Knew

I’ve been publishing a series of articles called What The Pros Use that shares data about the rifle...

precisionrifleblog.com

And this article is in a way related. Going over which actions PRS shooters tend to use, most of which take prefits. Keeping in mind PRS isn't the end-all-be-all as far as its translation to hunting but still it's an interesting dataset to look at if you're a gear nerd like I am.

Best Custom Rifle Action: What The Pros Use

I recently surveyed the 200 top-ranked shooters in the Precision Rifle Series (PRS) to lea...

precisionrifleblog.com

 

[Article 4]

Stumbled across this article about PRS shooters using/not using prefits, as well as some good information on them, so figured I'd throw it in here.

Pre-Fit Barrels: Everything Your Gunsmith Wishes You Knew

I’ve been publishing a series of articles called What The Pros Use that shares data about the rifle...

precisionrifleblog.com

And this article is in a way related. Going over which actions PRS shooters tend to use, most of which take prefits. Keeping in mind PRS isn't the end-all-be-all as far as its translation to hunting but still it's an interesting dataset to look at if you're a gear nerd like I am.

Best Custom Rifle Action: What The Pros Use

I recently surveyed the 200 top-ranked shooters in the Precision Rifle Series (PRS) to lea...

precisionrifleblog.com

Nice articles. Good reads.

 

[JohnJohnson]

Nice articles. Good reads.

Seems like they come out every 2 weeks for this past season's data. I assume the optics one will be 10 days from now. The preferred actions one is the gear-type I think is most relevant to hunting, if any of them truly can be. People talk about how PRS shooters baby their rifle setups, especially optics, and that's true for some. But their actions take way more abuse than 99.99% of hunting rifle actions. Especially those Oklahoma guys shooting in that moondust.

 

[Article 4]

Seems like they come out every 2 weeks for this past season's data. I assume the optics one will be 10 days from now. The preferred actions one is the gear-type I think is most relevant to hunting, if any of them truly can be. People talk about how PRS shooters baby their rifle setups, especially optics, and that's true for some. But their actions take way more abuse than 99.99% of hunting rifle actions. Especially those Oklahoma guys shooting in that moondust.

True.
Their complete kit takes in more abuse than most of put our gear through.

I think pre fits can work but on newer very high quality actions. Still going to prefer mine to be done by a smith.

 

[ddowning]

The most important part of a rebarrel is how well the barrel is indicated to be chambered/threaded concentric to the bore. Next is barrel dimension and finish consistency inside the bore.

A lot of people like to get into the weeds with reamer specs. It can make a difference, but it is usually minor unless there is a problem. There are certain things that need to be right, but if a good blank is chambered perfectly concentric to the bore it will shoot.

I run bighorn actions and buy prefit barrels from my smith. The machining finish on the treads isn't as pretty as some, but he is so anal about dialing in a barrel that all of mine have shot insane with good reloading components.

As was stated, some prefit companies don't indicate barrels. They just chamber them with floating reamer holders and hope for the best. A few years ago we were discussing prefits on another forum. PVA has/had a reputation for producing extremely accurate prefits. They were having some growing pains so there was a time when lead times were a problem. Josh from PVA said they had the prefit process pretty streamlined. We were comparing him and Criterion. The difference is that Criterion does not dial in the barrels. It is a fixture. He was trying to figure out how to dial in every barrel and still be profitable and cost competitive with Criterion. Some prefit companies definitely dial in every barrel and some definitely do not. The rest of the minutia is icing on the cake.

 

[Willyb43]

I hear you. Sometimes being a machinist can trump a gunsmith but sometimes a good gunsmith knows what a machinist doesn't

I don’t follow this logic at all, professional title isn’t indicative of competency.

If you give the same tooling, chamber blueprints, and barrel blank to a “gunsmith” and a “machinist” the quality of the chamber you get cut isn’t going to come down to what title they hold. Sure there is some nuance to it, and relevant experience matters, but probably less than you think. It probably has more impact on how fast they can set up and complete the job, than the quality of the part produced.

My experience with CNC machines was not the same as yours. The machine can be excellent and some CNC machines are. Even still, they are only as good as the programmer and the person indicating the part....I have personally witnessed so called "machinists" who were worse off with the CNC reamer than someone doing it with "old school" machines.

What does this even mean? All machine tools are only as good as their operator and quality of construction…. Your logic hurts my brain… How is bad programming different than bad machine setup? If “machinist A” runs a cnc program where the depth of cut for chamber is wrong, and feed rate is wrong for your action threads, and “gunsmith b” sets the gearing wrong for his half nut and cuts the wrong pitch in his threads, and doesn’t zero his DRO properly and cuts your chamber depth wrong, what’s the difference? the result is the same… the same logic can be applied to literally everything to do with the machining process regardless of CNC vs manual.

You don’t need to be a gunsmith to check your own work, you just need to be competent. When you machine parts for a customer, regardless of industry, you make it to spec or it’s garbage. That’s not done blindly, you only know this by measuring and checking your work, it’s not that complicated.

 

[Article 4]

I don’t follow this logic at all, professional title isn’t indicative of competency.

If you give the same tooling, chamber blueprints, and barrel blank to a “gunsmith” and a “machinist” the quality of the chamber you get cut isn’t going to come down to what title they hold. Sure there is some nuance to it, and relevant experience matters, but probably less than you think. It probably has more impact on how fast they can set up and complete the job, than the quality of the part produced.



What does this even mean? All machine tools are only as good as their operator and quality of construction…. Your logic hurts my brain… How is bad programming different than bad machine setup? If “machinist A” runs a cnc program where the depth of cut for chamber is wrong, and feed rate is wrong for your action threads, and “gunsmith b” sets the gearing wrong for his half nut and cuts the wrong pitch in his threads, and doesn’t zero his DRO properly and cuts your chamber depth wrong, what’s the difference? the result is the same… the same logic can be applied to literally everything to do with the machining process regardless of CNC vs manual.

You don’t need to be a gunsmith to check your own work, you just need to be competent. When you machine parts for a customer, regardless of industry, you make it to spec or it’s garbage. That’s not done blindly, you only know this by measuring and checking your work, it’s not that complicated.

Opinions are like what? Yup. You guessed it

 

[TaperPin]

I don’t follow this logic at all, professional title isn’t indicative of competency.

If you give the same tooling, chamber blueprints, and barrel blank to a “gunsmith” and a “machinist” the quality of the chamber you get cut isn’t going to come down to what title they hold. Sure there is some nuance to it, and relevant experience matters, but probably less than you think. It probably has more impact on how fast they can set up and complete the job, than the quality of the part produced.



What does this even mean? All machine tools are only as good as their operator and quality of construction…. Your logic hurts my brain… How is bad programming different than bad machine setup? If “machinist A” runs a cnc program where the depth of cut for chamber is wrong, and feed rate is wrong for your action threads, and “gunsmith b” sets the gearing wrong for his half nut and cuts the wrong pitch in his threads, and doesn’t zero his DRO properly and cuts your chamber depth wrong, what’s the difference? the result is the same… the same logic can be applied to literally everything to do with the machining process regardless of CNC vs manual.

You don’t need to be a gunsmith to check your own work, you just need to be competent. When you machine parts for a customer, regardless of industry, you make it to spec or it’s garbage. That’s not done blindly, you only know this by measuring and checking your work, it’s not that complicated.

Good lord, a machinist with no understanding of firearms has no chance whatsoever of achieving the same level of quality of a good gunsmith. He can learn how to do it, but there’s a fundamental misunderstanding of the importance of experience.

A new construction plumber has no chance doing a good replumb on a complicated remodel. A cabinet maker with 20 years experience will struggle building cabinets on site. An experienced metal working CNC programmer hired to machine stair parts with a CNC router asked me how to troubleshoot the cutting of wood. The list goes on and on in every profession.

I wouldn’t let a machinist touch a rifle, or he will scratch the crap out of the receiver just unscrewing the barrel, if he doesn’t tweak it. Lol