What’s in between a 6.5 Creedmoor and the Magnums?

[Formidilosus]

Actually, yeah, the 270 shoots faster enough than the 6.5 CM that it has less drop and wind deflection even with less BC bullets.

What .277 bullets that can be shot out of standard 270 winchesters have less wind drift than bullets that can be shot out of any standard 6.5 CM?

 

[thinhorn_AK]

How about a 30-06?

 

[Pabst]

All considered, nothing wrong with a 270.

As for bullets, I like Barnes 129gr LRX but there are lots of options.

 

[kevin11mee]

Just a few thoughts:
-The .300 win mag can be loaded down to .30-06 levels. 150-168gr bullets with a brake will produce less recoil than a .270 win.
- That being said, I’m also looking for something light weight between the 6.5 CM and my .300 win mag. I’d strongly consider the 6.8 Western if factory ammo is what you will be mostly shooting. If handloading: 6.5prc, 6.5 RPM, .270 or .270 WSM (fast twist would be awesome), .280 AI, 7mm-08.

 

[Bado20]

I’ll settle this for you guys lol. I have owned a 30-06 in the past and did not enjoy shooting it. I switched to a 308 bolt gun and that was way more comfortable to shoot. Sold that a while ago…probably should have kept it.

Now that I’m starting from scratch, I want to be on the low end of the recoil spectrum. While a 30-06 is less than a 7mm (which I’ve also shot a lot), it’s just slightly less suck. I’m looking for little to no suck.

Do you reload? If you do it opens up a lot of the faster 6.5's. The handloader can push the 6.5x55 Swede a good bit faster than the 6.5 Creedmoor and it is still relatively light recoiling. Because the 6.5x55 is so old the SAAMI spec is incredibly low to protect antique actions - not relevant in a modern hunting rifle. The 264 Winchester Magnum is another option that recoils just a hair less than a 308. If you need factory ammo a 270 is in between the magnums and the 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

[fwafwow]

OP - any chance you will do a table comparing those that fit your preferences ? Or at least please keep us posted on which you are considering after the input (at least those who read your original post…)?

 

[GunsAreFun]

OP - any chance you will do a table comparing those that fit your preferences ? Or at least please keep us posted on which you are considering after the input (at least those who read your original post…)?

Sounds like 270 is the ticket.

 

[LongWayAround]

25-06 vs 6.5 Creedmoor vs 270: The Results Might Surprise You

Here's what you need to know about the pros and cons of the 25-06 vs 6.5 Creedmoor vs 270 Win so you can make an informed decision. The better choice is

thebiggamehuntingblog.com

This article seemed to do a good job of laying out the pros and cons of a few similar calibers. To my eye, it doesn't appear that a guy gains a whole lot by adding a .270 if you already own a 6.5CM. Maybe everyone here suggesting a .270 feels differently?

I have similar thoughts on adding something between my 6.5CM and 7RM but there doesn't really seem to be any reason to. At the ranges I hunt and shoot, these two will easily cover me for anything in North America that I will pursue.

Still, I would like to try something like a 6.5PRC.

 

[GunsAreFun]

25-06 vs 6.5 Creedmoor vs 270: The Results Might Surprise You

Here's what you need to know about the pros and cons of the 25-06 vs 6.5 Creedmoor vs 270 Win so you can make an informed decision. The better choice is

thebiggamehuntingblog.com

This article seemed to do a good job of laying out the pros and cons of a few similar calibers. To my eye, it doesn't appear that a guy gains a whole lot by adding a .270 if you already own a 6.5CM. Maybe everyone here suggesting a .270 feels differently?

I have similar thoughts on adding something between my 6.5CM and 7RM but there doesn't really seem to be any reason to. At the ranges I hunt and shoot, these two will easily cover me for anything in North America that I will pursue.

Still, I would like to try something like a 6.5PRC.

If I had a bolt gun in any mid range cartridge, I agree it wouldn’t be worth changing calibers, but I currently don’t. I do have 308s but they are heavy ARs, and I want something lighter for mountain hunts.

 

[LongWayAround]

If I had a bolt gun in any mid range cartridge, I agree it wouldn’t be worth changing calibers, but I currently don’t. I do have 308s but they are heavy ARs, and I want something lighter for mountain hunts.

I misunderstood that.

7mm-08?

 

[davsco]

there really isn't much that isn't a meaningful step up from 6.5 creed without going to something like 300winmag or wsm. a 6.5prc is basically a 10% jump in velocity. i'd go 300wsm and get a good brake. i have a tikka t3x in 300wsm with an area419 hellfire brake and seriously it's a pussycat. a few years back i had a t3 in 300 win (not braked) and it kicked like a friggin mule and i sold it. but the brake makes a ton of difference. sure, you'll want to wear earpro which is what i've been doing with braked or non-braked guns.

 

[AkMtnRunner]

What .277 bullets that can be shot out of standard 270 winchesters have less wind drift than bullets that can be shot out of any standard 6.5 CM?

From reloading manuals, the velocity advantage of the 270 is more significant than the BC advantage of the 6.5 CM.

For example:

From Nosler
6.5 CM - 140 AB, max vel 2733, bc .509, windage @ 1000 yds = 90.7"
270 Win - 150 AB, max vel 2918, bc .500, windage @ 1000 = 84.3"

6.5 CM - 150 ABLR, max vel 2725, bc .634, windage @ 1000 yds = 67.9"
270 Win - 150 ABLR, max vel 2918, bc .591, windage @ 1000 yds = 67.1"

From Barnes
6.5 CM - 127 LRX, max vel 2883, bc .468, windage @ 1000 yds = 94.1"
270 Win - 129 LRX, max vel 3211, bc .463, windage @ 1000 yds = 81.3"

Link to these trajectories on Shooterscalculator.com

Wind drift is also the closest quality that the 6.5 is to the 270. Drops are even more significant. At 1000 yds, the 6.5 is dropping a full 1-2 mils more than the 270 between the above matchups.

 

[Formidilosus]

From reloading manuals, the velocity advantage of the 270 is more significant than the BC advantage of the 6.5 CM.

For example:

From Nosler
6.5 CM - 140 AB, max vel 2733, bc .509, windage @ 1000 yds = 90.7"
270 Win - 150 AB, max vel 2918, bc .500, windage @ 1000 = 84.3"

6.5 CM - 150 ABLR, max vel 2725, bc .634, windage @ 1000 yds = 67.9"
270 Win - 150 ABLR, max vel 2918, bc .591, windage @ 1000 yds = 67.1"

From Barnes
6.5 CM - 127 LRX, max vel 2883, bc .468, windage @ 1000 yds = 94.1"
270 Win - 129 LRX, max vel 3211, bc .463, windage @ 1000 yds = 81.3"

Link to these trajectories on Shooterscalculator.com

Wind drift is also the closest quality that the 6.5 is to the 270. Drops are even more significant. At 1000 yds, the 6.5 is dropping a full 1-2 mils more than the 270 between the above matchups.

Why would you use two garbage BC 6.5 bullets, and one that doesn’t exist?


Again, what common .277 bullet that can be fired from standard 270 Winchesters, beats common bullets that can be fired from standard 6.5 Creedmoors in wind drift?

The answer is- there isn’t one.

270W with 150gr ABLR at 2918fps hit rate on a 12” target at 800 yards (5k DA)-

30%



6.5 CM with 147gr ELD-M at 2,750 (real MV) with the exact same parameters-

34% hit rate.





1,800fps impact range-

270= 880 yards
6.5= 935 yards



Now, one can decide whether 4% higher hit rate or an extra 55 yards of terminal performance range is important or sufficiently better. That’s also ignoring the 42% less recoil of the 6.5; better precision, MV SD/ES, ease of tuning, and accuracy that the 6.5 brings. This isn’t cherry picking, it’s literally using the best bullet for .277 that’s relatively uncommon, with the most common 6.5 bullet. If the 270 doesn’t shoot that one bullet, the comparison gets even uglier, whereas there are a dozen top 6.5’s projectiles that also perform terminally.

 

[AkMtnRunner]

It was an apples to apples comparison between the two cartridges, unlike the 270 ABLR to the 6.5 ELD-M. If we are talking cartridge vs cartridge, all other variables should be kept the same.

 

[Formidilosus]

It was an apples to apples comparison between the two cartridges, unlike the 270 ABLR to the 6.5 ELD-M. If we are talking cartridge vs cartridge, all other variables should be kept the same.

Haha, what? All variables aren’t the same. The 270 was built and designed around a light, low BC, fast bullet. The 6.5 wasn’t. Apples to apples one can simply buy in 20 round boxes 6.5 ammo that out performs any standard 270 combination. Bullets matter, head stamps don’t. You said that the 270 had less wind drift than the 6.5 CM, even hand loading the one (1) bullet worth a flip in .277, it can’t and won’t by literal design.

The 270 is fine, but saying it’s better for LR shooting or killing is not correct.

 

[AkMtnRunner]

Haha, what? All variables aren’t the same. The 270 was built and designed around a light, low BC, fast bullet. The 6.5 wasn’t. Apples to apples one can simply buy in 20 round boxes 6.5 ammo that out performs any standard 270 combination. Bullets matter, head stamps don’t. You said that the 270 had less wind drift than the 6.5 CM, even hand loading the one (1) bullet worth a flip in .277, it can’t and won’t by literal design.

The 270 is fine, but saying it’s better for LR shooting or killing is not correct.

By that same reasoning, what the bullets can actually do matter, design and intention don't. The fact is that the 270 shoots a bigger bullet faster enough that it has an edge over the 6.5 CM in more areas than the vice versa. And that is even looking at 1000 yards. Closer, the differences are only greater.

I don't have anything against the 6.5 CM, it's a great caliber for making hits at long range. I think our military should use it for a lot of applications. But, it IS fair to say that a 270 is still a step up from the 6.5, definitely for killing. It's superior case capacity is just too much to compensate for. If you want to say that a certain loaded 6.5 ammo is better than another loaded 270 ammo for a certain role, that is perfectly fair, but one company making a much better BC bullet in 6.5 than it does for the 270 doesn't tell the whole story of what a cartridge is capable of.

I want to remind you that my suggestion to the OP was for the 280 AI.

 

[Formidilosus]

By that same reasoning, what the bullets can actually do matter, design and intention don't.

That is correct. There is no .277 bullet that can be fired from normal 270 winchesters that match or exceed the bullets for 6.5.

The fact is that the 270 shoots a bigger bullet faster enough that it has an edge over the 6.5 CM in more areas than the vice versa. And that is even looking at 1000 yards. Closer, the differences are only greater.

Again, in what actual way. It certainly doesn’t in retained velocity or wind drift or hit rate. Please be very specific in what bullet you are loading in your 270 that is better, and how exactly is it better. Again, not myths or I believe nonsense- what objective way does the 270 have an edge? Wound channel size? Hit rate? Shootability? Factory ammo performance? Reduced recoil? Wind drift?

But, it IS fair to say that a 270 is still a step up from the 6.5, definitely for killing.

Ok, how is the 270 a “step up” for killing?

 

[tdot]

I had a similar goal to the OP when I was trying to decide on a cartridge between my Rem260 and 300wm. The first rifle I built was a 6.5ss, which is very similar to the PRC. After several black bears and deer I didn't feel like there was an appreciable difference in the killing effectiveness between the Rem260 and the 6.5ss. This year I built a 300wsm and 7saum in order to keep learning (playing). And while I've only shot a single ram with the 7saum, I've been happy with the jump up in performance so far. Spring bear will help to confirm my choice as the 7saum will be on 6 potential bear hunts. It'll be interesting to see if the 300wsm was a step too far. As of right now my vote would be for a 280ai or 7saum.

 

[JFK]

The difference is that the 6.5 is only superior to the 270 at the extreme limits of where most guys shoot. Most guys aren’t shooting/hunting to 800 yards. Inside of normal hunting ranges, the 270 is much flatter shooting, many times enabling someone to make a quick shot without the need for correction on the scope. The lack of drop when compared to a slower cartridge like the 6.5 CM is useful.

With mono bullets becoming more popular, velocity becomes more important. So
much so, that most people load monos for the 6.5 in lighter weights than they would for a 270. A comparable mono bullet is leaving a 270 upwards of 300fps faster than a 6.5 CM shooting the same weight bullet. Meanwhile looking at say 0-400 yards the delta between the two with regard to wind drift is basically a wash.

 

[AkMtnRunner]

Formidilosus,

Just because a 6.5 bullet has a better BC than a 270, does not make it have superior wind drift. As I showed in the apples to apples examples above, the 270 can have less wind drift because those bullets are moving fast enough and spend less time being affected by wind.

I consider the 270 a step up in killing potential because it will likely have a larger wound channel due to being a larger and heavier bullet carrying greater energy.