What happens when a gun manufacturing company dies?

[KMW831]

Wasn't sure where to post this, but curious just the same. I don't really have the breadth of experience or context to make a judgment on this but thought the notion was interesting, so thought I'd offer it up for discussion;

I have a T/C venture weather shield in 7mm-08. Didn't know a ton about it when I bought it, other than having a generally good opinion of T/C, and wanting a 7mm-08, gun game scoped, cool cerakote paint job, with a sling etc for a fair price from a nice guys so it was an easy purchase to get back into hunting. Turns out it's a pretty good rifle with some real positive features and it's killed everything I've shot at since buying it. LOP is a bit short for me, but with Hornady Super Performance it's .50-.75 MOA shooter and around 1-1.5 with Corelokt and Fusion. Can't complain.

Well, it only came with one mag, I recently decided I should order another one, as well as an aftermarket bolt handle, and while I found those items, I learned through shopping that S&W is done with T/C and a buyer hasn't been announced (and at this point probably isn't likely?) Bummer. Been a fan of T/C since they won their case at the supreme court.

That got me thinking.... how difficult to own will these rifles become? Is it going to be impossible to find parts for the Venture/Compass rifles? Is that even an issue, as hunting rifles don't see high round counts generally so not likely to have failures or stuff wear out?

While I've owned discontinued models in the past, the manufacturing company never went away, just the model. Started thinking about what to expect. Best to sell it to a lower volume shooter? Buy some spare parts and run it as long as I can? Shoot it and maybe it lasts forever, or if it dies, oh well, hopefully I got my $600 worth?

What usually happens when a gun co dies?

 

[ArcherAnthony]

I can only tell you what happens when a gun manufacturer gives up on a product completely. I own a shotgun that I can't shoot anymore. It's a Remington 105 CTI ii. I can shoot it but when it breaks they don't support this shotgun anymore and haven't for sometime. And no aftermarket companies make parts for it either. So it's pretty much a waste of space in my safe. And that's a company that's still in business.
So if T/C doesn't get picked up by someone else. Is there any aftermarket companies making parts for them? If not I would probably get rid of it while the getting is good.

 

[grfox92]

I forget the piece, but my friend is missing some pin from a Rem Model 1100. Arguably the most mass produced autoloader of all time and no where online has that part in stock and it's been that way for over a year.

Sent from my SM-G990U2 using Tapatalk

 

[hereinaz]

Check Numrich, eBay, and GunBroker for parts…

 

[KMW831]

I can only tell you what happens when a gun manufacturer gives up on a product completely. I own a shotgun that I can't shoot anymore. It's a Remington 105 CTI ii. I can shoot it but when it breaks they don't support this shotgun anymore and haven't for sometime. And no aftermarket companies make parts for it either. So it's pretty much a waste of space in my safe. And that's a company that's still in business.
So if T/C doesn't get picked up by someone else. Is there any aftermarket companies making parts for them? If not I would probably get rid of it while the getting is good.

Doesn't seem to be much aftermarket support. Few things here and there is all I could find.

It's a bummer. I like the rifle and I've got some minor sentimental attachment to it (It's the rifle I used to get back into hunting a few years back and the rifle I carried when teaching my two oldest boys to hunt and the rifle one of my boys got his first deer with) but... Don't want to have it just sitting in the corner of the safe useless due to sentimentality.

 

[KMW831]

I forget the piece, but my friend is missing some pin from a Rem Model 1100. Arguably the most mass produced autoloader of all time and no where online has that part in stock and it's been that way for over a year.

Sent from my SM-G990U2 using Tapatalk

Saw a thread a while back somewhere about a guy in the same boat with a Marlin X7. Loved the gun but can't shoot it anymore due to one small piece that broke in the bolt.

 

[Dioni A]

It's a bolt action rifle... How much stuff to you expect to break? If your that concerned about stuff breaking why use it in the first place. They're not a very expensive rifle and I doubt the resale value will be very different today or 10 years from now.
If your keeping it maybe just get an extra magazine.

 

[ArcherAnthony]

Doesn't seem to be much aftermarket support. Few things here and there is all I could find.

It's a bummer. I like the rifle and I've got some minor sentimental attachment to it (It's the rifle I used to get back into hunting a few years back and the rifle I carried when teaching my two oldest boys to hunt and the rifle one of my boys got his first deer with) but... Don't want to have it just sitting in the corner of the safe useless due to sentimentality.

I have a few of those sentiment firearms. If that's the case just keep it. One day you might wish you still had it to pass on to your boys.

 

[Squincher]

Often someone will buy the remaining parts stock when a company goes out of business. I don't know if there are enough TC rifles in circulation to make that worthwhile.

 

[KMW831]

It's a bolt action rifle... How much stuff to you expect to break? If your that concerned about stuff breaking why use it in the first place. They're not a very expensive rifle and I doubt the resale value will be very different today or 10 years from now.
If your keeping it maybe just get an extra magazine.

Honestly I've never had anything break on a bolt action ever. But my bolt action experience had mostly been "hunting season in a couple months, let's go to the range and shoot from 100 to 500 a few times And then go fill some tags".

So I don't know what to be concerned about honestly, and I'm not really all that concerned. It's mostly an academic conversation as I've never owned a gun from a company that went defunct but have red threads where people have guns that became paperweights to the parts issues.

To this point in my life my varmint shooting and high volume rifles have all been AR's.

 

[ericacymcdonald]

All rifles are that way regardless of they are still in business or not. If the rifle has changed the parts are going to be hard to find after a few years. The model 70 for example has been made for almost 100 years and has had changes that are not interchangable from one generation to the next. The only exception is probably the Rem 700 which has a huge aftermarket

 

[Fordguy]

What happens is that things generally suck for the people who have purchased that companies products with an expectation of long term use.
Look at what happened with H&R/NEF after Remington bought them (and Marlin). Remington let quality go to hell on the H&R line for a few years before shutting down production entirely. Essentially they stayed open just long enough to sell off the supply of barrels and actions with no regard to quality/tolerances. I still have one "fitted barrel" from the Remington years that opens every time it fires- if it fires. Even quality on the Marlin rifles took a nosedive.
Today if you need parts for an H&R, you look on ebay or visit pawn shops and hope you get lucky. There may be a few other sources out there but not many.

 

[KMW831]

All rifles are that way regardless of they are still in business or not. If the rifle has changed the parts are going to be hard to find after a few years. The model 70 for example has been made for almost 100 years and has had changes that are not interchangable from one generation to the next. The only exception is probably the Rem 700 which has a huge aftermarket

Fair point. That's interesting. So in reality a lot of rifles are "shoot them till they die and then move on" situations regardless.

 

[Macintosh]

Agree^^, dont worry too much. Virtually all guns go out of production at some point. I own and rely on a primary hunting shotgun that went out of production in the 1970’s, and for years shot several thousand rounds a year at clays with a shotgun made in 1913 that went out of production in the early 1940’s. If its important to you, buy a few mags and whatever parts you think you’ll need (firing pin, etc) and dont worry about it. A decent smith can make almost any part for you, although that’ll cost more than that gun did so you need to be committed to do that. If you arent, inexpensive guns that arent ubiquitous-enough to be actually making parts for are sort of “medium-term disposable”. That could still be 30 or 40 or 50 years though at the rate at which most people shoot hunting rifles.

 

[KMW831]

Well, I did a cursory search for various parts that I suppose are wear items on a bolt gun (firing pin/extractor/trigger spring) and there's pretty much nada. Suppose I'll just hunt with it until something dies

Appreciate everyone's thoughts. Bummer to see a cool company die.

 

[vonb]

Guns are hard commodities. Rarely do they break or wear out. If it is sentimental and you break something, I’m sure a gunsmith can fix it.

 

[Mojave]

Guns are hard commodities. Rarely do they break or wear out. If it is sentimental and you break something, I’m sure a gunsmith can fix it.

The number of smiths that are in the business of fixing guns and not building guns is going down hill.

Guns like that Icon are fine. If they die, you buy another one. Unless you have the ability to fix it yourself.

A friend of mine builds rifles for a living. He used to work for a big shop as a repair guy, there is zero money in fixing cheap guns.

No one wants to actually pay top dollar to fix a cheap gun.

Put a LC Smith on face and did a bunch of work to repair a stock. The gun was not an expensive model when it was made in the 1940s. He quoted the owner multiple times $4000. Did the work and the owner never picked it up. So he has $4000 in time and a stock in a $800 gun.

An Icon is not a double shotgun, and the numbers are not going to be the same. But the problem is the same.

 

[Liftman101]

The number of smiths that are in the business of fixing guns and not building guns is going down hill.

Guns like that Icon are fine. If they die, you buy another one. Unless you have the ability to fix it yourself.

A friend of mine builds rifles for a living. He used to work for a big shop as a repair guy, there is zero money in fixing cheap guns.

No one wants to actually pay top dollar to fix a cheap gun.

Put a LC Smith on face and did a bunch of work to repair a stock. The gun was not an expensive model when it was made in the 1940s. He quoted the owner multiple times $4000. Did the work and the owner never picked it up. So he has $4000 in time and a stock in a $800 gun.

An Icon is not a double shotgun, and the numbers are not going to be the same. But the problem is the same.

If he has a written quote, it should be fairly easy to take the owner of the rifle to small claims court and get a judgement for the 4K. Plus storage fees and perhaps some interest. Whether the owner is collectible or not is the decision he has to make first.

 

[Steve300xcw]

Wasn't sure where to post this, but curious just the same. I don't really have the breadth of experience or context to make a judgment on this but thought the notion was interesting, so thought I'd offer it up for discussion;

I have a T/C venture weather shield in 7mm-08. Didn't know a ton about it when I bought it, other than having a generally good opinion of T/C, and wanting a 7mm-08, gun game scoped, cool cerakote paint job, with a sling etc for a fair price from a nice guys so it was an easy purchase to get back into hunting. Turns out it's a pretty good rifle with some real positive features and it's killed everything I've shot at since buying it. LOP is a bit short for me, but with Hornady Super Performance it's .50-.75 MOA shooter and around 1-1.5 with Corelokt and Fusion. Can't complain.

Well, it only came with one mag, I recently decided I should order another one, as well as an aftermarket bolt handle, and while I found those items, I learned through shopping that S&W is done with T/C and a buyer hasn't been announced (and at this point probably isn't likely?) Bummer. Been a fan of T/C since they won their case at the supreme court.

That got me thinking.... how difficult to own will these rifles become? Is it going to be impossible to find parts for the Venture/Compass rifles? Is that even an issue, as hunting rifles don't see high round counts generally so not likely to have failures or stuff wear out?

While I've owned discontinued models in the past, the manufacturing company never went away, just the model. Started thinking about what to expect. Best to sell it to a lower volume shooter? Buy some spare parts and run it as long as I can? Shoot it and maybe it lasts forever, or if it dies, oh well, hopefully I got my $600 worth?

What usually happens when a gun co dies?

I look at the lower dollar rifles as just that. And wouldnt put much time or effort into fixing one of them.

That said. There are plenty of old obsolete guns out there. Your situation is nothing new. Snag parts or parts guns when you come across them. Bout all you can do. That said, bolt guns are pretty solid. Not much to break unless you get extra sporty with a reload.

 

[Axlrod]

If he has a written quote, it should be fairly easy to take the owner of the rifle to small claims court and get a judgement for the 4K. Plus storage fees and perhaps some interest. Whether the owner is collectible or not is the decision he has to make first.

Classic case of a good craftsman/poor business man. Never should have taken a $4000 job on an $800 gun without 75%-100% down before touching it. Hopefully the $4k education will serve him well.