What Happened to Sitka?

[thegoosano]

Have they actually released it yet? I only saw the vague advertisement

Not yet, release date is something like 9/5. Smack in the middle of when I’m in the woods for basically half a month haha


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[Miflatlander91]

Does it seem odd they are releasing a new camo pattern in the middle of archery elk and archery deer season?


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I thought the release date was super odd. Made me think it’s going to be pushed as an early season whitetail pattern…


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[thegoosano]

I thought the release date was super odd. Made me think it’s going to be pushed as an early season whitetail pattern…


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Ya that’s my thought too, probably not a big game marketed pattern. In the case it is, I have so many questions haha. Imagine if they combined open country and subalpine into one to reduce SKUs. Optifade powers unite!


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[Miflatlander91]

Ya that’s my thought too, probably not a big game marketed pattern. In the case it is, I have so many questions haha. Imagine if they combined open country and subalpine into one to reduce SKUs. Optifade powers unite!


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either way I’m good with what I have and just wish they would come out with normal solid colors but I’m sure the real hardcore fanboys will go out and buy it all


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[Bazookas]

CS rep told me when I called about ordering a Stratus jacket that they would be coming out with a "better" version this summer for whitetail if I could wait. That's all he could share at that point.

Noticed this weekend that Scheels seemed to have much less inventory, and they said they no longer match the Sitka pro programs in the Scheels store due to a dispute of some sort with Sitka. Also noticed some folks who had been long time pros moving away completely.

 

[Macintosh]

I think it's highly likely that some large part of whatever is going on is due to the new PFC legislation in both the US and EU. I believe Sitka is still owned by WL Gore, which is the maker of all Gore fabrics for the entire world. Starting in the EU, which is a very large market for Gore, and now in the US, the majority of their products have become unsellable. Literally, the majority of the materials making up the products the company has sold up until now are illegal to sell, or will become so in the very near future, in the largest markets in the world. Think about a global supply chain from R&D to production of materials, shipping to suppliers, to manuafacturers, to markets and finally to consumers--this is a multi-year supply chain that powers every single one of the largest outdoor brands in the world, that over th epast couple years had to be completely re-built from the ground up. Raw matrerials are different, manufacturing used to build fabrics are different, tooling needs to be changed, all the way across an entire industry, all over the course of just a couple years--which seems like a long time, but in the timelines that markets work its light-speed. To think that a company like Gore that has been more or less entirely dependent on these products which are now off-limits in their most important markets, would be anything other than "majorly affected" by changes like this, is a pipe-dream. I have no doubt that these regulatory changes forced them to change manufacturing, change fabrics, change processes from sourcing to dying to laminating to stitching, etc, forcing them to make some hard choices and replace products as best as they could, and also make some tough (and maybe some not so tough) choices about what their assortment should, and needs to, look like moving forward since they have been forced to make changes.

 

[thegoosano]

I think it's highly likely that some large part of whatever is going on is due to the new PFC legislation in both the US and EU. I believe Sitka is still owned by WL Gore, which is the maker of all Gore fabrics for the entire world. Starting in the EU, which is a very large market for Gore, and now in the US, the majority of their products have become unsellable. Literally, the majority of the materials making up the products the company has sold up until now are illegal to sell, or will become so in the very near future, in the largest markets in the world. Think about a global supply chain from R&D to production of materials, shipping to suppliers, to manuafacturers, to markets and finally to consumers--this is a multi-year supply chain that powers every single one of the largest outdoor brands in the world, that over th epast couple years had to be completely re-built from the ground up. Raw matrerials are different, manufacturing used to build fabrics are different, tooling needs to be changed, all the way across an entire industry, all over the course of just a couple years--which seems like a long time, but in the timelines that markets work its light-speed. To think that a company like Gore that has been more or less entirely dependent on these products which are now off-limits in their most important markets, would be anything other than "majorly affected" by changes like this, is a pipe-dream. I have no doubt that these regulatory changes forced them to change manufacturing, change fabrics, change processes from sourcing to dying to laminating to stitching, etc, forcing them to make some hard choices and replace products as best as they could, and also make some tough (and maybe some not so tough) choices about what their assortment should, and needs to, look like moving forward since they have been forced to make changes.

This is very true for their membrane based products (wind and rain shells). I can imagine that product line is in for some tough times ahead for a while until PFAS free technology catches up. However I’d say a majority of their line is not membrane focused and despite these issues and it being a big deal, you’d think that all their non membrane products (pants, base layers, fleece, down, etc) etc should still be cranking.

But I definitely could be wrong and I see your point!


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[SloppyJ]

I think it's highly likely that some large part of whatever is going on is due to the new PFC legislation in both the US and EU. I believe Sitka is still owned by WL Gore, which is the maker of all Gore fabrics for the entire world. Starting in the EU, which is a very large market for Gore, and now in the US, the majority of their products have become unsellable. Literally, the majority of the materials making up the products the company has sold up until now are illegal to sell, or will become so in the very near future, in the largest markets in the world. Think about a global supply chain from R&D to production of materials, shipping to suppliers, to manuafacturers, to markets and finally to consumers--this is a multi-year supply chain that powers every single one of the largest outdoor brands in the world, that over th epast couple years had to be completely re-built from the ground up. Raw matrerials are different, manufacturing used to build fabrics are different, tooling needs to be changed, all the way across an entire industry, all over the course of just a couple years--which seems like a long time, but in the timelines that markets work its light-speed. To think that a company like Gore that has been more or less entirely dependent on these products which are now off-limits in their most important markets, would be anything other than "majorly affected" by changes like this, is a pipe-dream. I have no doubt that these regulatory changes forced them to change manufacturing, change fabrics, change processes from sourcing to dying to laminating to stitching, etc, forcing them to make some hard choices and replace products as best as they could, and also make some tough (and maybe some not so tough) choices about what their assortment should, and needs to, look like moving forward since they have been forced to make changes.

Are you referencing the pfas stuff? I'm in the water industry and it's a huge unknown. It's too early to tell right now, they've been discussing it for a while with nothing coming out but if it does happen there are MANY industries that it will impact.

I need a new set of stratus bibs but now I'm waiting for the new stuff to come out. If for nothing else, to get them cheaper.

I think the release date is a bit odd. It works great for me being in the south but not so much for the rest of the country.

 

[Macintosh]

Yes, various flourinated chemicals, PFC’s aka pfas. The EU is several years ahead of the US on this. Global supply chain=their problem is also our problem. Hang on to your gore tex jacket from 2020, the 2022 version is junk in comparison from a performance standpoint (non fluorinated DWR), and the material itself has major regulation in the way of it because the entire laminated technology is based on the stuff. Thats all the flavors of gore tex, windstopper, etc…all of the dozen + laminated fabrics that are the backbone of gore’s brand.

 

[Poser]

Traditionally, most DWR treatments have been made with perfluorinated compounds (PFCs) that are man-made chemicals designed specifically to be good at repelling water. The first PFCs used by the outdoor industry were long chain C8 fluorocarbons that worked really well for waterproofing, but they were found to be highly persistent ‘forever chemicals’ that would not break down over time in the environment.

Jones Snowboards was the first US company that I noticed was using non PFC based DWR treatments on their clothing lines. I've heard pretty positive feedback on the performance, but have no direct experience myself. The jackets are running $450-$850 range, though.

Men's Snow Jackets 2024 | Jones Snowboards

From expeditions to all-day lift lapping, the men's Shralpinist, MTN Surf and Uphill collections got you covered no matter where you roam or how you ride.

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Considering a recent study concluded that 100% of all males tested as well as 100% of domesticated dogs who were also tested, had micro plastics in their testicales at a rate of 6.5 to 790 micrograms per gram of tissue, this is an issue that is going to have to be addressed.

 

[Macintosh]

Totally. And it is, and some products we’ve taken for granted simply wont be available as a result.
I worked in the outdoor industry for a major outdoor brand that was one of gore europes largest customers, and have numerous friends working for other fabric manufacturers. Ive seen firsthand testing and spoken with developers about the new vs old fabrics and the changes. The c6 and other dwrs simply arent nearly as waterproof, not by a long shot. And a waterproof breatheable fabric requires that dwr to breathe because a fabric that’s been wet-out cannot allow transfer of water vapor. And the best laminates themselves have all been pfas materials that are or will be regulated. Regardless of what is good or bad for the world and users, for a brand like gore whose entire existence and the sum total of their R&D and product portfolio is based on laminated fabrics constructed largely with a now-restricted material, its going to force some major changes on a variety of levels—remember that outdoor fabrics are only one facet of what they do, they also do all sorts of medical, industrial, etc products based on the same materials and tech, and they rely on the combined volume to make their pricing, manufacturing, etc all work. That is all.

Besides, Ive been married for over 20 years, mine arent much use any more!

 

[backcountryplatinum]

Whoaaaaaa.....A point above. Here's the new camo. Do you think they merged them together?

Less SKUs. More profitable.

I dig it.

 

[Ditt44]

Back to the Forest/ground pattern. Early season archery and later spring turkey would be my guess as the target market. Probably a big hit with the southern state hunters too who have longer green season.

 

[Swamppirate]

Reminds me of the old BDU colors…brown, black green and some tan.

 

[Alpine4x4]

Looks like Kuiu Verde...

 

[SloppyJ]

Whoaaaaaa.....A point above. Here's the new camo. Do you think they merged them together?

Less SKUs. More profitable.

I dig it.

View attachment 756428

Where you snag that from?

I actually really like it. It will be a hit here in the south. But I'm not selling all of my stuff just to go hard on a new pattern.

 

[Shackdaddy]

Why can't we go back to mountain mimicry 1.0 and 2.0 or max-1.

 

[TheTone]

So it’s slightly less dark than the original “whitetail” pattern they had years ago? Guess a whole new pattern is the best way to move product. When the clothes last for years you have to do something to keep people buying

 

[craigrh13]

Deer are colorblind right? Pretty camo is for hunters not the animals.

 

[Ditt44]

Deer are not color blind. They can see some colors, mainly blues greens and yellow shades. Camo is effective. Period. It breaks up the human form and the closer you are to the animal the more it will benefit the hunter with all other factors being equal.

Hunters shooting long range have far less need for camo. But most of all... the technical components of the clothing whether camo or not is the point. Better weather protection, breathability, weight, fit, comfort, system components etc are the point. If they are camo or solid is up to the user to choose. It is the construction and usefulness that matters and camo serves its purpose in certain circumstances.

Hunters wearing camo are not lesser hunters or outdoorsman nor are they all suckers for fashion trends. If you don't like it don't buy in. Change the channel and move on.