What does it take to kill a grizzly?

[KHntr]

How many bears have you shot and skinned? You do realize they put on massive layers of fat all year right? I also think people need to specify if they are shooting alaskan/Canadian bears or lower 48 bears. There is a difference. And yes I know the bear get big down there but that's because they don't have to hibernate.

I couldn’t even hazard a guess on how many I’VE shot and skinned, but it’s a bunch, and even those “massive layers” of fat offer virtually no resistance to a bullet or arrow (or a f*ckin’ spear either, as I’ve done that too), at least on our big Northern BC Canadian bears at any rate.
On a bear that was recently alive you can hardly keep the fat together enough in your fingers to scrape it off of the animal, much less have it offer anything resembling bullet resistance. It ain’t like trying to push your finger through a slab of cold bacon from the fridge…

 

[Thegman]

The last 3 grizzlies that I have seen that wasn’t from the confines of a pickup truck, were grizzlies that were observed while hunting elk.
One of them was an absolute behemoth of a bear that I snuck up on accidentally in the rain, and got to within 30 yards of just at last light as I was checking a hidden pocket for bulls.
The next one was a sub adult that was running in to the smell of a freshly gutted elk.
The last one came charging through the timber to my cow calls and was 30 yards out before I identified that it was a bear and not a bull, and gave him a holler to turn him so he ran past at 10 yards, instead of over me.

3 falls ago walking out of the sheep mountains in the rain we found a different trail that we followed, that had boot prints a couple hours old on it. A half hour later a fresh set of cow moose tracks entered the trail, following the guys in front of us. A half hour after that, an even fresher set of big grizz tracks also appeared on the trail.
I commented at that time to my buddy, that “as long as this cow doesn’t catch up to these dudes and turn around and head back and then run into this bear 10 minutes before we get there, we are golden.”

A half hour later we stopped to look at a giant pile of grizz shit on the trail when something caught my eye behind us. A very large grizzly crossed the trail behind us maybe 20 yards back. We backed along the trail, around a slight corner where my buddy stepped into the cow moose who was so recently dead that the nerves were still making her intestines move.

Long story short, my Montana 223AI was what was in my hands this year when we bumped a 3 or 4 year old grizz not 50 yards from that spot on the trail. I felt completely confident in that rifle and my abilities with it and the fact that it was stuffed with 4 rounds of 77 TMK’s. So confident in fact, that the only rifle I am carrying this fall is that 223AI with 77TMKS or 88 ELD m’s. It’s already been on a stone sheep hunt, to the coast to hunt sitka blacktails, and it flat smacked the bull elk pictured below down and dead in under 10 seconds. I will carry it hunting moose in a few weeks and *hopefully* I’ll be the first guy on the planet to kill three bulls in three years with 88 ELD m’s. I’ll probably kill a great big black bear with it this fall yet just for giggles. And it’ll definitely kill a big BC buck or two.

This bull fell within 300 yards of where all three of the previously mentioned grizz encounters occurred. Hunting elk solo, in grizz country. And I do have grizzly blood under my fingernails (Metaphorically speaking, not currently).

I’ve killed a reasonable number of critters bigger than deer with a lot of different cartridges, and I feel completely confident in using a 223 stuffed with bullets that maximize damage as being faster killers than traditionally accepted cartridges that minimize damage - ie, controlled expansion/mono’s/bonded bullets.

But thats just me, and I have a pretty high comfort level when it comes to bears in general. I live every single day in bear country and walking to my shop could result (and has resulted) in a close range bear encounter.

There aren't a lot of rifles I find all that interesting, but your Kimber 223AI shooting the 88ELDs is at about the top of the list. Always brings me back to building my 700Ti into something similar.

 

[KHntr]

There aren't a lot of rifles I find all that interesting, but your Kimber 223AI shooting the 88ELDs is at about the top of the list. Always brings me back to building my 700Ti into something similar.

If I could only have one rifle for everything, this would be it. I thought it was pretty cool when it was flinging 75 Amax’s for deer and black bears, but with a 7 twist and 88’s it is an absolute monster.

 

[Formidilosus]

How many bears have you shot and skinned?

Does that change what a bullet does in tissue?

You do realize they put on massive layers of fat all year right?

What does fat due to the wound channel?

I also think people need to specify if they are shooting alaskan/Canadian bears or lower 48 bears. There is a difference. And yes I know the bear get big down there but that's because they don't have to hibernate.

What does hibernating or not have to do with why a bear if big?

 

[rickyw]

Man, I’m like a moth to a flame with this thread. I like the stories of guys who have actually killed grizzlies, and what they used to do so. The rest is just a dumpster fire of opinions. Phil Shoemaker went from a 30-06 to a 458 win mag. Other guys are using 223s in the bush (Phil knows this too but chooses his 458). My 30-06 worked very well two weeks ago. Use what you will, observe the result, report back.

 

[Thegman]

I couldn’t even hazard a guess on how many I’VE shot and skinned, but it’s a bunch, and even those “massive layers” of fat offer virtually no resistance to a bullet or arrow (or a f*ckin’ spear either, as I’ve done that too), at least on our big Northern BC Canadian bears at any rate.
On a bear that was recently alive you can hardly keep the fat together enough in your fingers to scrape it off of the animal, much less have it offer anything resembling bullet resistance. It ain’t like trying to push your finger through a slab of cold bacon from the fridge…

And not to mention, those fat layers aren't too thick on the spots you're typically placing a bullet. The biggest and fattest black bear I've shot had a layer of fat 3-4 inches thick over his back and rump, not much if any over his ribs or other places you'd likely be trying to put a bullet. That's typical with all bears I've shot. The rest of their stored fat is around their intestines.

 

[MtnW]

Quote yesterday from Phil Shoemaker of Grizzly Tracks of Alaska over on Accurate Reloading. Lots of experience over there boys!!
“Just because it can or could be done does not make it a good idea.”
“You can kill big brown bears with a 9MM handgun too, but it certainly would not be my choice for hunting them”

You guys that have zero experience hunting grizzly or brown bears such as Formidilosus and those who continue to drink his Kool-AID. Just love to listen to all the comments from the inexperienced here who have never had a grizzly tag let alone killed a grizzly or brown bear tell the hunting forums on how to hunt and kill grizzly and brown bears . Lots of B.S. .

 

[pacoalcracker]

I'm not at all saying it cannot be done....but the margin for error is pretty slim and stuff happens. It's not uncommon for a small, light bullet to hit a rib and go into the stomach or into a shoulder. Now you may have a serious issue at hand to deal with. Not likely to have that same issue with a heavier larger caliber bullet moving as fast or faster (or even slower). I'm just saying for most hunters it is unwise. Perhaps some of you guys happen to be something special. I didn't say 21 posts, I said only 1 person using a 223 for elk out of 21 "pages" of posts..or perhaps 150 different members posting. Awful lot of 30+ caliber fans in there. So, that ratio is 1/150 or so for the elk hunters using a 223. Not very convincing by any standards. At any rate, we all have our own opinions based on our own knowledge and experiences. My opinion is still that it is reckless, and the animal deserves better. Enough said, by me at least.

 

[Thegman]

You guys that have zero experience hunting grizzly or brown bears such as ...

Such as...uh...you???

I'm also one of those guys that has never had a grizzly tag in my pocket.

 

[MtnW]

Such as...uh...you???

I'm also one of those guys that has never had a grizzly tag in my pocket.

Thegman,
Lol, so you compare your experiences to Phil Shoemaker? Really??
Your grizzly/brown bear pic (your one and only?) is much smaller than any black bear I have killed.

 

[ElPollo]

Thegman,
Lol, so you compare your experiences to Phil Shoemaker? Really??
Your grizzly/brown bear pic (your one and only?) is much smaller than any black bear I have killed.

Folks, it’s just a bad idea to feed the trolls. There is no sense in trying to convince a useless feminine hygiene product of anything using logic. MtnW does not comprehend logic or data. He is just here to stir shit. Just ignore him and his beliefs.

 

[The Guide]

Thegman,
Lol, so you compare your experiences to Phil Shoemaker? Really??
Your grizzly/brown bear pic (your one and only?) is much smaller than any black bear I have killed.

You have a real bromance relationship with Phil don't you? I'd bet he doesn't reciprocate.

Jay

 

[The Guide]

Folks, it’s just a bad idea to feed the trolls. There is no sense in trying to convince a useless feminine hygiene product of anything using logic. MtnW does not comprehend logic or data. He is just here to stir shit. Just ignore him and his beliefs.
View attachment 767552

I'd say he is looking for something to give his life validation and meaning. Being that awesome at everything is a lonely existence.

Jay

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

How many bears have you shot and skinned? You do realize they put on massive layers of fat all year right? I also think people need to specify if they are shooting alaskan/Canadian bears or lower 48 bears. There is a difference. And yes I know the bear get big down there but that's because they don't have to hibernate.

I’ve killed black bears in the sierras that had significantly more fat than any brown bear I’ve killed in AK or any interior grizz I’ve killed.

What is your personal experience with killing bears and how “fat layers” or “hide thickness” affect a bullets killing ability?

From what I’ve seen on multiple dozen black bears and brown bears, neither of the aforementioned physique characteristics play a large role in a bullets killing ability within reliable ranges (impact velocity). Would you agree or disagree?

 

[MtnW]

Folks, it’s just a bad idea to feed the trolls. There is no sense in trying to convince a useless feminine hygiene product of anything using logic. MtnW does not comprehend logic or data. He is just here to stir shit. Just ignore him and his beliefs.

Chickenman,
So you keep giving us your unsubstantiated advice. Neither you or Formidilosus has eVer had a grizzly/brown bear tag in your pocket let alone hunted or ever killed one, but yOu continue to advise others on a hunting forums on how it’s done. That is what I find amusing . It’s like dumb and dumber. Let’s talk some about your course work thougH . Much more enlightening than real world experiences!

 

[MtnW]

You have a real bromance relationship with Phil don't you? I'd bet he doesn't reciprocate.

Jay

No, just a lot of respect for what Phil has to say about his real life experiences hunting grizzly/brown bears, along with a few others in his profession.
MtnW

 

[NateTP38]

Chickenman,
So you keep giving us your unsubstantiated advice.

You haven't substantiated a single thing you have said.

No, just a lot of respect for what Phil has to say about his real life experiences hunting grizzly/brown bears, along with a few others in his profession.
MtnW

Oh, you mean drinking his kool-aid?

 

[MtnW]

You haven't substantiated a single thing you have said.




Oh, you mean drinking his kool-aid?

No , being smart enough to respect and understand his experiences hunting grizzly/brown bears as a professional.
Do you even know who Phil Shoemaker is Lil’ Rockslider??

 

[The Guide]

No , being smart enough to respect and understand his experiences hunting grizzly/brown bears as a professional.
Do you even know who Phil Shoemaker is Lil’ Rockslider??

You mean the guy who took a 9mm with him as a self defense gun and killed an aggressive bear with it? Ya, we've all heard of him.

Jay

 

[MtnW]

You mean the guy who took a 9mm with him as a self defense gun and killed an aggressive bear with it? Ya, we've all heard of him.

Jay

Yes know it all .
And how many 9MM rounds did he put in the brown bear at 8 feet. Why don’t you tell us the whole story?? Or I think you are you one of the brain dead.