What do you wish factory ammunition offered?

[mtnbiker208]

more availability to 225 gr accubonds in a 338 win mag.
same with 140 gr accubonds in a 270wsm

 

[Fireflyfishing]

$0.25/round

 

[cuerro viejo]

That seems straightforward when focusing on load details and velocity, but it gets more complex when considering group sizes. Would you test with a factory rifle like a Tikka, or a custom-built rifle? A factory rifle would provide a more realistic representation of what most shooters can expect, whereas a custom rifle would better demonstrate the true performance potential of the ammunition.

Additionally, which projectiles would you be most interested in seeing offered for 223 Rem, 22 Creedmoor, 6mm Creedmoor, 6.5 Creedmoor, and .308 Winchester? Even if it is currently already available.

Factory rifle -tikka specifically with 5.56/223 ammo. Infact do tikka with all of them. I finally burned through all my stand 1 ammo 77TMK

this weekend- all 77TMK 15 shot average. 23” tikka , Velo, SD/ES

ACC -2785. 8.4/22
Bonefrog- 2832 14/44.7
Blk Hills- 2874 10/29.5

All three shot 15 @ <1.25 MOA,

If you could get batch to batch consistency for same price as ACC…. Be a lot of demand IMO

 

[MuleyBuck]

They wouldn’t have to print all the data people want on the box (if they did want to publicize the data…). Just publish it to a website by lot number where you could go search the lot number of the ammo you bought, or plan to buy, and see what the data looked like.

 

[Dave0317]

.243 loaded with 108 ELDM. That would become the go to ammo for all the guys that want a 6 creed Tikka, but don’t want to re-chamber a brand new gun.

Other than that, I’d probably become a customer for your .223 ammo loaded with 77 TMK or 73 ELDM.

 

[wind gypsy]

75 ELDs loaded to about 2.450" COAL and SAAMI 223 max pressures.

And this:

130 tmk 6.5 creed

 

[KenLee]

New production 150 gr nbt splatter bullets for my 300 wsms.

 

[Longrangr]

30/06 ammo for modern rifles - ie loaded to the pressures that newer rifles are capable of.

 

[coyotekilla]

@bpa556 this is a green & yellow example of a consistency error. 6.5 creed. A 3.5" group isn't gonna be ethical at 300, let alone 500.

Rifles were a new tikka upr & a savage 110 Apex hunter. The last group was rem components, sorted by bullet weight, powder to the tenth, and fired... 3.5 became sub moa.

I reload because I'm tired of not being able to get consistency outa factory. And cause I can roll 5.56 soft points for 8.60 a box.

 

[bpa556]

@bpa556 this is a green & yellow example of a consistency error. 6.5 creed. A 3.5" group isn't gonna be ethical at 300, let alone 500.

Rifles were a new tikka upr & a savage 110 Apex hunter. The last group was rem components, sorted by bullet weight, powder to the tenth, and fired... 3.5 became sub moa.

I reload because I'm tired of not being able to get consistency outa factory. And cause I can roll 5.56 soft points for 8.60 a box.

I get it. It just hasn’t been my experience. I shoot green and yellow core-lokt in 25-06 and 300wsm. No accuracy issues from them. I shoot Black and Silver Precision Hunter in 6.5. Also no issues like you have pictured. I’m sorry you’ve had issues and glad you now roll your own.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SDHNTR]

This thread makes me laugh. People think when a box of ammo doesn’t shoot well out of their rifle it’s the ammo’s fault and it needs to be better quality…

 

[2Stamp]

Real velocity numbers for each lot of ammo.

Jay

This and a little better QC. I picked up a box of HSM for my 25-06 to try; box had some good numbers. My chrono said otherwise! The box is always off a little, but close to 500 fps is laughable. Just one more reason to not trust the box data.

Yes, the recoil felt very light for this cartridge/bullet weight combo. I pulled a bullet and weighed the powder charge when I got home. 44.5gr.

 

[Lawnboi]

The only way to do what is really being asked by many here.

Develop a reamer, or pick one
Chamber good barrels with it
Find a load that works well
Load and sell it all together

Have quality reloading dies available

But at that point to make money we are probably talking some serious cost.

Just building all the same saami stuff everyone else is making isn’t going to be anything ground breaking.

Just look at what UM is doing with the 6um. Look at what alpha has done with the dasher…. There’s still some meat on this bone imo.

 

[WCB]

They wouldn’t have to print all the data people want on the box (if they did want to publicize the data…). Just publish it to a website by lot number where you could go search the lot number of the ammo you bought, or plan to buy, and see what the data looked like.

Yeah then when a guy looks at the data before shooting and sees his lot is 1.2MOA out of a test barrel on the manufacturer's web site but 2.5" out of his specific firearm he thinks the company is lying or his previous lot was 1MOA according to the website and the new lot he just bought (that he hasn't shot yet) is 1.2MOA and he calls in and bitches. Or the company get bombarded with calls on where to find "x" lot number because it looks like it shoots good.

Same with velocities... I need "x" new lot because it is the same as the lot I bought 3 years ago.

Total nightmare...for the general public and 90+% of applications it would be beyond stupid for a company to do that. For the other 10% or less...guys already handload or there are small niche handload or custom shops available.

 

[SDHNTR]

Yeah then when a guy looks at the data before shooting and sees his lot is 1.2MOA out of a test barrel on the manufacturer's web site but 2.5" out of his specific firearm he thinks the company is lying or his previous lot was 1MOA according to the website and the new lot he just bought (that he hasn't shot yet) is 1.2MOA and he calls in and bitches. Or the company get bombarded with calls on where to find "x" lot number because it looks like it shoots good.

Same with velocities... I need "x" new lot because it is the same as the lot I bought 3 years ago.

Total nightmare...for the general public and 90+% of applications it would be beyond stupid for a company to do that. For the other 10% or less...guys already handload or there are small niche handload or custom shops available.

This nails it. To do what is being asked here is unrealistic at best, if not impossible.

Handloading, where the end user can control the variables, is the only solution.

 

[The Guide]

This is what I'm talking about for more constancy from lot to lot. First lot of 22 ARC ammo is 90 fps slower than the new lot in the same gun at the same elevation and similar (within 10⁰) temperature. Pretty silly to have that huge of swing from factory ammo although it has come to be expected from Hornady.

Jay

 

[wapitispokes]

I think all factory ammo that has advertised velocities on the box should use a 24” barrel as the standard length. (This would be nice for reloading manuals as well)

Then it would be up to the consumer to calculate expected velocities based off this standard.

Lot to lot consistency is probably the most important unknown in factory ammo.

Good idea, but I would suggest 22". Better yet, as others have suggested, provide that data for several barrel lengths - especially those super magnum over-bore loads with a lot of "wallop" (LOL).

The change in bullet velocity per inch of barrel length variation is materially lower at longer barrel lengths vs. shorter. So, if I had to pick ONE barrel length it would probably be 22" because most people who shoot factory ammo for big game hunting will have a 20-24" barrel. Manufacturers would prefer to use 24" to show higher velocities.

However, the more I think about this, given the velocity differential between different barrels (regardless of barrel length) I would tend to say that anyone who needs or wants that much velocity precision should just buy one of those new Garmin Xero's. I have one (I also have an older traditional Chronograph). The XERO's are so easy to use and so compact, I'd say that is the way to go because if you think you need better velocity precision than what is currently being supplied by OEM, then the hunter probably owes it to themselves to get the number RIGHT from their own rifle. I wonder what Formidilosus thinks about my comment.

 

[wapitispokes]

That seems straightforward when focusing on load details and velocity, but it gets more complex when considering group sizes. Would you test with a factory rifle like a Tikka, or a custom-built rifle? A factory rifle would provide a more realistic representation of what most shooters can expect, whereas a custom rifle would better demonstrate the true performance potential of the ammunition.

Additionally, which projectiles would you be most interested in seeing offered for 223 Rem, 22 Creedmoor, 6mm Creedmoor, 6.5 Creedmoor, and .308 Winchester? Even if it is currently already available.

I brought this up in my other comment below - only in relation to the velocity part of the question: Form, if folks feel they need more velocity detail, thenn in consideration of the significant variations in velocity caused simply by different barrels (different firearms) shouldn't the shooter "get it right" by using a chronograph with their own weapon?

WRT to group sizes; IMO, OEM is NEVER going to offer 30 shot group data. For a whole bunch of reasons, some of which were mentioned immediately above by "Idaho Precision".

However, if a specialty "boutique" ammunition manufacturing began publishing their 30 shot group data against actual results from the "boutiques" tests with OEM ammunition, and the boutique had enough clout to impact the OEM's volume and profits...then the OEM might feel a need to "fight back". Of course, the first thing that the "BIG" OEM is going to do, is pick their best barrels to run the test in, while little ole' "boutique" may not have the same assortment of barrels at their disposal. The wonkyness goes on and on...the boutique would likely want to use a test barrel that has a chamber with a throat optimal for the bullet and ammunition they are manufacturing which may not be optimal for the OEM bullet / ammunition against which they are comparing.

The "veracity" of the testers is probably also "not" "beyond reproach"

 

[Macintosh]

Imo an ammo comoany providing grouping info is a terrible idea—it is dependent on too much outside of the ammo itself (ex. different test barrels even within the same company) to be a valuable metric. Even velocity is different enough barrel to barrel that its only a ballpark and cant really be “used” reliably. Far better to make a velocity SD guarantee (“SD of no more than 25fps”, or whatever figure), and guarantee lot-to-lot velocity deviation no more than a certain amount. That might be nice and actually tell you something for premium ammo. But you’ll pay for it, thats for certain. TANSTAAFL

 

[satchamo]

243 with 103-108 gr options seated out a bit further to take advantage of the fast twist tikkas

22-250 with 70-80 gr options seated out a bit further to take advantage of fast twist tikkas

I know this is pretty niche but if you buy either of these rifles you’re hand loading or buying boutique ammo to really optimize them.