What do you wish factory ammunition offered?

[Macintosh]

There is nothing I want that isnt already available, most of it readily available.
I have ZERO interest in reloading. Been there, done that. For me, the time is more valuable and factory ammo is so good I have very little need for better.
Availability in times of high demand is about the only thing I could wish for, but that really has nothing to do with the ammo itself.
Info and marketing is always bs…thats just a universal truism. Ammo is not unique in this regard. They’re going to show you as little as they can get away with, 100% of the time.

 

[Brontosaurus]

But if they disclose, then they would wind up with mountains ammo they can't sell when that batch comes back as two or three minutes of angle at best over 30 rounds....

Maybe? Still it wouldn't be hard to come up with a recipe, shoot a 100 rnds and go from there.

 

[KcRoyals85]

270win to be consistently loaded to 3200 again apart from superformance and short barrel specific loads.

 

[mwoolsey5]

88-95G ELD-X for 22 CM.

 

[Benny119]

I think all factory ammo that has advertised velocities on the box should use a 24” barrel as the standard length. (This would be nice for reloading manuals as well)

Then it would be up to the consumer to calculate expected velocities based off this standard.

Lot to lot consistency is probably the most important unknown in factory ammo.

 

[pacoalcracker]

Quality available ammo is plenty accurate and consistent for 98% of the people qualified to use it. Almost nobody (maybe 2%) truly needs hunting ammo shooting tighter than 1.5MOA from a quality rifle and all quality ammo is able to do just that. Heck, even 2.5MOA is just fine for 85% of hunters that are good enough to 450/500 yards. For those qualified, 1.5MOA is plenty good out to 600+ yards on deer 800+ yards on elk for vitals hit. Anyone needing to be shooting further than that is likely rolling their own anyways.

Stop complaining. More game was shot with a 30-30 or a 06 Remington pump rifle with core-lokts than all the rest combined...and we know how good those guns shot and what that ammo was like.

 

[omicron1792]

I want more ammo in peak alloy case. A 62gr fusion at 3300 from a 223/556 would satisfy 90% of my hunting needs.

 

[rabbithuntr]

But if they disclose, then they would wind up with mountains ammo they can't sell when that batch comes back as two or three minutes of angle at best over 30 rounds....

Which mean cheaper ammo that’s in stock!

 

[roadrunner]

Ammo companies are not going to go through the process of fine tuning lot loads in their test rifles hoping it matches yours and then wait to package it because they have to wait for the graphics art proofs to be approved, the decals printed, and then make a production run on the packaging.

They don't care and know that the large part of their customer base doesn't geek out on 30 round groups like some do on internet forums. This market segment just isn't big enough to matter to them.

Poor financial business decision really....

 

[RockAndSage]

Hello, I am new to Rokslide (lurker for a while). After listening to a lot of podcasts about match bullets for hunting, what’re people’s go to ammunition/projectiles for hunting? What do people wish manufacturers offered in “off the self” factory ammunition for hunting/match ammunition? I hear a lot of talk about TMK, ELD-M, and Bergers, what’re people’s experiences with these? I plan on using 77 TMKs in 223 Rem and 223 PRS Moses, and 108 ELD-Ms in a 6mm Creedmoor. @Formidilosus you have been a big influence in the changing of my thought process, what do you wish you get from a factory “off the shelf” ammunition for different cartridges?

If you're open to broader suggestions...

1) Don't try to compete on cost - you'll never be a cheaper commodity-grade ammo supplier than any US manufacturer, let alone any of the Brazilian, Turkish, or Eastern European companies. You just can't out-walmart any company that has scale.

2) Niche hard. For many reasons, but first and foremost is to get a beachhead income stream with an audience of people who will become absolutely evangelical for your ammo. Find that audience, cater to it in a way that makes them exceedingly happy on quality or performance properties, and own that niche.

3) Don't dilute your quality or brand by chasing other things. Don't be General Motors offering all things to all people. Be Lamborghini.

4) Make building relationships and building tribe a key part of that niche work.

If you want a specific suggestion...

There may be a niche right here in being the absolute best manufacturer of high-performance, match-grade hunting .223 ammo on the planet. Other companies offer good loadings, but nobody focuses on providing the absolute best lineup of world-class .223 hunting ammo. Own that niche. It's wide open. Build the quality and provide the data, provide a handful of offerings meant to be the absolute best possible, iterate, and build a following by being dedicated and accessible.

 

[DangerRanger]

130 tmk 6.5 creed

 

[Mosby]

A lot of the factory ammo I have bought is extremely inaccurate in my rifles and I have pretty accurate rifles. Winchester 45-70 was awfuI through 2 different rifles.

If it isn't accurate, everything else is almost irrelevant to me, so I would say to produce more accurate ammo if they are going to charge a premium per box.

Of the different manufacturers I have bought, Hornady always seems to be the most accurate out of the box.

 

[bojangles808]

I get spreads in the 90s with Hornady match and some serious velocity variance from lot to lot. since its "match" I'd expect better. Sucks when you order 10 boxes and that lot is 150 fps slower than the last one lol. in Hawaii so can't exactly return to Hornady. precision is fine but the spreads cant be good for elevation long range

 

[The Guide]

Ammo companies are not going to go through the process of fine tuning lot loads in their test rifles hoping it matches yours and then wait to package it because they have to wait for the graphics art proofs to be approved, the decals printed, and then make a production run on the packaging.

They don't care and know that the large part of their customer base doesn't geek out on 30 round groups like some do on internet forums. This market segment just isn't big enough to matter to them.

Poor financial business decision really....

So you feel that consumers shouldn't hold a manufacturer to a level of standard where consistency and truth in advertising is paramount? We, the consumers, should just take what we get and be happy? That same thinking is the reason why the market is full of shitty scopes with wondering zeros.

Jay

 

[JFK]

I think some of the things being asked for are neat and are no doubt possible, but you’d be butting up against a price that most people wouldn’t like. Hornady, Federal and the like are operating at a scale that makes their products roughly $40-45/box. A smaller company isn’t going to be able to get materials for as cheap, nor produce ammo at the same cost. Would be nice for sure but it sounds like about a $4/ round proposition and a nightmare to manage. On top of all that, you have to guarantee your shit shoots better than the cheaper factory stuff, which it may or may not.

 

[IdahoPrecision]

If you're open to broader suggestions...

1) Don't try to compete on cost - you'll never be a cheaper commodity-grade ammo supplier than any US manufacturer, let alone any of the Brazilian, Turkish, or Eastern European companies. You just can't out-walmart any company that has scale.

2) Niche hard. For many reasons, but first and foremost is to get a beachhead income stream with an audience of people who will become absolutely evangelical for your ammo. Find that audience, cater to it in a way that makes them exceedingly happy on quality or performance properties, and own that niche.

3) Don't dilute your quality or brand by chasing other things. Don't be General Motors offering all things to all people. Be Lamborghini.

4) Make building relationships and building tribe a key part of that niche work.

If you want a specific suggestion...

There may be a niche right here in being the absolute best manufacturer of high-performance, match-grade hunting .223 ammo on the planet. Other companies offer good loadings, but nobody focuses on providing the absolute best lineup of world-class .223 hunting ammo. Own that niche. It's wide open. Build the quality and provide the data, provide a handful of offerings meant to be the absolute best possible, iterate, and build a following by being dedicated and accessible.

You definitely hit on all of the points I am going to do. My starting calibers will be 223 Rem, 6mm Creedmoor, 6.5 Creedmoor, and 308 Win. But I will be a small batch, high quality control, centerfire rifle ammo, for hunting and competition. Will have a 77 TMK offering. Based in Idaho

 

[IdahoPrecision]

I think some of the things being asked for are neat and are no doubt possible, but you’d be butting up against a price that most people wouldn’t like. Hornady, Federal and the like are operating at a scale that makes their products roughly $40-45/box. A smaller company isn’t going to be able to get materials for as cheap, nor produce ammo at the same cost. Would be nice for sure but it sounds like about a $4/ round proposition and a nightmare to manage. On top of all that, you have to guarantee your shit shoots better than the cheaper factory stuff, which it may or may not.

Already have that figured out for the same prices and better quality components

 

[JFK]

Already have that figured out for the same prices and better quality components

That’s awesome. Good luck in your new venture.

 

[IdahoPrecision]

Lot to lot consistency with point of impact and velocity. Put the load details on every box. Show the test group with at least 1x 30 round group extreme spread for every lot#.

That seems straightforward when focusing on load details and velocity, but it gets more complex when considering group sizes. Would you test with a factory rifle like a Tikka, or a custom-built rifle? A factory rifle would provide a more realistic representation of what most shooters can expect, whereas a custom rifle would better demonstrate the true performance potential of the ammunition.

Additionally, which projectiles would you be most interested in seeing offered for 223 Rem, 22 Creedmoor, 6mm Creedmoor, 6.5 Creedmoor, and .308 Winchester? Even if it is currently already available.

 

[mtnbiker208]

more availability to 225 gr accubonds in a 338 win mag.
same with 140 gr accubonds in a 270wsm