What do you do about ATV/Snowmobile idiots?

[Yoder]

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It's the publics land.

If you can walk it, you should be able to ride a horse, a dirt bike, a quad/sxs, a wheeler, a helicopter or land a plane.

If you can't, it's not the publics land. I'm not in favor of limiting anyone's preference to utilize what is the publics.

Except bicyclists on streets in the middle of the road. They can get bent.

"First they came for........"

Edit before anyone jumps to conclusions, I'm a conservationist, but do not believe use should be limited.

The overwhelming majority of the public are idiots. Can you imagine what it would look like if people could just do whatever they wanted? I think it's the publics land, but not to destroy all of it. I think they try to make things so people can do different activities. People should have access to some areas to drive whatever they want. Other areas they should have their vehicles confiscated and be beat with something.

 

[Rich M]

In a world where USFS does not or cannot (another debate topic) do their jobs and stop these habitual offenders then some men feel the need to punish themselves. Some don’t, that’s fine. I hope no one rides their ATV illegally through your honey hole on opening morning. I’ve seen the worst of illegal situations in wilderness areas more than once to have a chip on my shoulder. There’s a reason Americans love a good vigilante move right? Agree to disagree, Have a good day, mean it!

I used to hunt in an area of leases, camps would go up in smoke, campers disappear, stuff destroyed, chest freezers full of meat unplugged, etc.. Folks getting even for whatever slights they thought necessary to avenge.

If you catch someone messing with yer stuff, it is diff than riding a trail - that's personal property and not a publicly closed trail. Be interesting to hear an attorney's take on it.

The overwhelming majority of the public are idiots. Can you imagine what it would look like if people could just do whatever they wanted? I think it's the publics land, but not to destroy all of it. I think they try to make things so people can do different activities. People should have access to some areas to drive whatever they want. Other areas they should have their vehicles confiscated and be beat with something.

I agree - folks would destroy everything in the name of "fun".

I am against closed roads and trails - let folks access it as they can. Just that folks destroy stuff cause they are idiots.

 

[GSPHUNTER]

The overwhelming majority of the public are idiots. Can you imagine what it would look like if people could just do whatever they wanted? I think it's the publics land, but not to destroy all of it. I think they try to make things so people can do different activities. People should have access to some areas to drive whatever they want. Other areas they should have their vehicles confiscated and be beat with something.

Wow, beat with something, that's a little strong don't you think. but I really like it.

 

[sneaky]

Interesting how many "two wrongs make a right" thinkers we have. Vigilantism could get you killed if someone caught you cutting anything on their vehicle. What if is the game of the moment it looks like. So, what if someone didn't like how you parked at the trailhead and cut your fuel lines or brake lines? Fun game to play, right? Take pictures, GPS location, license plates or OHV stickers, and let law enforcement do its thing. Somebody gonna get killed messing with someone's ride one of these days and I'm not going to have much sympathy.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Trackerbacker]

The overwhelming majority of the public are idiots. Can you imagine what it would look like if people could just do whatever they wanted? I think it's the publics land, but not to destroy all of it. I think they try to make things so people can do different activities. People should have access to some areas to drive whatever they want. Other areas they should have their vehicles confiscated and be beat with something.

While I don't disagree, especiallyabout the public, people can clearly walk paths to the mountain lake that a horse can't, so the horse rider takes a different path. Same for the quad, the vehicle, the helicopter, the plane.

If you can ride a snowmobile between trees without damaging the trees, that's no different than you walking the game trail/hike trail in without damaging trees.

It seems in the outdoor arena, the more 'purest' the pursuit, the more limits that group puts on others.

Just the same how guys here complain about e-bike/mtn bikers on public land.

We seem to have nostalgia that the trail we walk is allowed because it predates us, but cutting a new one is not. Why?

Why are historical petroglyphs acceptable but modern day petroglyphs not?

Why do we allow the .gov to close public lands (ie:covid)? Again, if it can't be used by the public within conservational standards, then it's not public land.

The land should be in a trust for the publics use. Not bureaucratically held, open sunrise to sunset, can't camp within 100yds of x, sorry were closed because the flu.

We need to manage our own, not act hoity toity, like vigilantes. If we can't manage our own, we have bigger societal issues..

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If the argument is because their enjoyment wrecked your enjoyment, well, buck up.

 

[Nickofthewoods]

It's the publics land.

If you can walk it, you should be able to ride a horse, a dirt bike, a quad/sxs, a wheeler, a helicopter or land a plane.

Take a spin through any public land and it's pretty clear that the most abuse is nearest to anywhere people can access by vehicle. Sure, there are some backcountry slobs too, but it pales in comparison to what is found near roads. I'm also really glad that there are places I can go where I don't see or hear vehicles, or have aircraft landing nearby.

 

[MTN BUM]

I'd anonymously provide the photo, GPS coordinates and spark plug to each violating vehicle to law enforcement. Carry a socket wrench.

I personally appreciate this approach. If you arent in good enough shape to get out with a machine failure then dont go in the first place, dipstick.

 

[Billy Goat]

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It's the publics land.

If you can walk it, you should be able to ride a horse, a dirt bike, a quad/sxs, a wheeler, a helicopter or land a plane.

If you can't, it's not the publics land. I'm not in favor of limiting anyone's preference to utilize what is the publics.

Except bicyclists on streets in the middle of the road. They can get bent.

"First they came for........"

Edit before anyone jumps to conclusions, I'm a conservationist, but do not believe use should be limited.

You ever driven on a public road???

You want those same asshats out on public lands?
With their vehicles?


Heck, since it's the public land, I should be able to go claim any resources on it I want too right? That's utilizing it.



Guess I took the bait.

 

[Trackerbacker]

Take a spin through any public land and it's pretty clear that the most abuse is nearest to anywhere people can access by vehicle. Sure, there are some backcountry slobs too, but it pales in comparison to what is found near roads. I'm also really glad that there are places I can go where I don't see or hear vehicles, or have aircraft landing nearby.

And we should police our own outdoorsmen and women.

geographically, there will always be elements that will road block people and their method of travel.

We allow rock climbing, we should allow rock crawling.

the more people we have enjoying the resources, the more enforcement we can take and the more eyes we have on those who abuse the resources.

You ever driven on a public road???

Yes, average of 71k miles a year. No, I don't drive for a living, part and parcel with what I do though.

You want those same asshats out on public lands?
With their vehicles?

The average driver can't make it past a curb. Same as the average hunter has their average limitations.

Heck, since it's the public land, I should be able to go claim any resources on it I want too right? That's utilizing it.

Sure, if it follows conservation standards and theirs no abuse.

Kind of like...drilling for oil....if we can do so with minimal impact, we should.

Or kind of like how some can own their land, but not the water or mineral rights of said land..

Guess I took the bait.

Yup, ya did. However you went to extremes, extremes of which I do not outwardly disagree with-see drilling.

Or the counter to that, we should only have the ornithologists and basket weavers determine (limit) uses.

I'm game for actual discussion on the matter. I'll start the next topic:

It's the publics land, who should be limited to using it and to what means?

 

[Billy Goat]

And we should police our own outdoorsmen and women.

geographically, there will always be elements that will road block people and their method of travel.

We allow rock climbing, we should allow rock crawling.

the more people we have enjoying the resources, the more enforcement we can take and the more eyes we have on those who abuse the resources.

Yes, average of 71k miles a year. No, I don't drive for a living, part and parcel with what I do though.

The average driver can't make it past a curb. Same as the average hunter has their average limitations.

Sure, if it follows conservation standards and theirs no abuse.

Kind of like...drilling for oil....if we can do so with minimal impact, we should.

Or kind of like how some can own their land, but not the water or mineral rights of said land..

Yup, ya did. However you went to extremes, extremes of which I do not outwardly disagree with-see drilling.

Or the counter to that, we should only have the ornithologists and basket weavers determine (limit) uses.

I'm game for actual discussion on the matter. I'll start the next topic:

It's the publics land, who should be limited to using it and to what means?

Dude, you are actively arguing for if you can walk it you should be able to drive on it?

Then saying as long as it follows conservation standards, it should be allowed.


I just can't debate that, it's over my head.

 

[Trackerbacker]

Dude, you are actively arguing for if you can walk it you should be able to drive on it?

Then saying as long as it follows conservation standards, it should be allowed.


I just can't debate that, it's over my head.

Why, if the public can access it, then all forms should be allowed, no?

If not, please tell me who shouldn't be allowed, where when and why.

 

[jimh406]

Don't get mad. Just report them.

 

[HighUintas]

Why, if the public can access it, then all forms should be allowed, no?

If not, please tell me who shouldn't be allowed, where when and why.

Um, no. That is why some places do not allow all forms of travel. I cannot give you a thesis on the topic, but as an example, I would expect you, as a conservationist, would understand this is decided when the land use management plan is developed for a national forest by way of public input and studies on current watershed, flora, and fauna health and potential impacts to those factors for each of the land use alternatives proposed.

 

[KurtR]

What’s really surprising is I thought everyone from Wisconsin was ice fishing North Dakota.

 

[Trackerbacker]

Um, no. That is why some places do not allow all forms of travel. I cannot give you a thesis on the topic, but as an example, I would expect you, as a conservationist

"I recognize the right and duty of this generation to develop and use the natural resources of our land; but I do not recognize the right to waste them, or to rob, by wasteful use, the generations that come after us."

Defenders of the short-sighted men who in their greed and selfishness will, if permitted, rob our country of half its charm by their reckless extermination of all useful and beautiful wild things sometimes seek to champion them by saying the ‘the game belongs to the people.’ So it does; and not merely to the people now alive, but to the unborn people

would understand this is decided when the land use management plan is developed for a national forest by way of public input and studies on current watershed, flora, and fauna health and potential impacts to those factors for each of the land use alternatives proposed.

Just to be clear...

When has that been successful done by the .gov?

Is access expanding or contracting?

Is damage expanding or contracting? And by who?

(Don't confuse conservationist with environmentalist) I presume you like your wood framed house, natural or synthetically fibered pack,etc etc etc, right? Done responsibly, all can use a resource.

How's California's model of management gone?
How's Colorados form of management gone?
How's the reintroduction of wolves gone?
How's western states management of water gone?
How's the western states form of forestry management gone (ie wildfires)?
How's the push for EV gone (lithium)?
Every wonder how these 'green' wind turbines and parts are recycled (or produced)?
Why is a building permit 3, 4, 5, 10x in certain states as compared to others?

Most of what's been done the last 100 years is akin to pendulum. Hard this way, hard that way.

You tell me based on these federally sourced statistics of federally managed lands (not included are state managed)



I'd say you're right, seems to be going swell all things considered...

Roughly. Federally, $2.7 billion dollars spent.

Who's doing more damage, the guy riding around a gate or the guy (generic) who, I'm assuming so bear with me, thinks we need government management and oversight of 'public' land?

I've rarely seen the hunting community do clean ups like I see done from other outdoor oriented groups, whys that?

 

[Wrench]

Dig on the north Idaho caribou motor vehicle shutdown....paying attention to the two releases and the usfw study. What you were told on the news and what was found are not the same.....kinda like "how a wolf changed a river"

100% BS.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

That’s a big “what if” but I’ll play along if you want. What if they’re burying a body of an annoying GF they just murdered? What if they stole that machine and are out joy riding? What if they are a Russian scout looking for a place to build a bunker for the invasion?

Bottom line is this. They’re destroying public lands and experiences for others who are getting away from the noise of roads/trails where legal to ride. They’re possibly putting pressure on already stressed game and causing low reproductive rates. My empathy is a negative 10, same level as a poacher.

How do snow machines destroy public land?

 

[thinhorn_AK]

If what they are doing is illegal, report it and move on with your life. Dont touch other peoples means of transportation. Even if they are in the wrong, that dosent give private citizens the right to destroy others private property.

If what they are doing isn’t illegal…then you can pretty much go cry and make internet posts about it.

 

[wyojdubya]

Long ago, in a home state trophy elk unit I won't mention, I found on a scouting trip in an area where motorized access was prohibited a multi-mile fresh two track with a couple quads packing chainsaws at the end of a long path of chopped logs. After investigating what I needed of the area for my hunt, I spent the rest of the day dragging every log and rolling every boulder I could to obstruct the return trip. Made me feel better, got me some serious exercise, and I hope made them work a little harder for their dumbf@*kery. Never touched their vehicles in the process.

 

[Coldtrail]

There is a huge difference between a percieved violation and an actual law violation, I have gotten into some pretty heated discussions and even physical altercations over the years with people screaming at me for things that aren't illegal like using hiking or ski trails to walk into hunting areas, operating a snowmobile on an unmaintained road (where legal) standing on a designated snowmobile trail with my shotgun,, hauling dogs in crates during the winter, etc, etc.

I couldn't imagine the rage I'd feel being 8-10mi from my truck on snowmobile 100% legal looking forward to loading my hounds back into my dog sled and riding back to my warm truck at the end of the day after a long lion race only to find some jackwagon cut my plug wires because they felt I might be breaking the law.