What did you do at the range today?

[Shraggs]

Fatcamp, my mind is wondering with games to play with you wife on that open ended statement!

 

[Shraggs]

Ha you I mean

 

[Lawnboi]

i don’t do podcasts, is there a easy to type explanation?

I don’t do podcast for the most part either besides modern day sniper. That one is worth listening to for the explanation straight from the horses mouth.

 

[Fatcamp]

Fatcamp, my mind is wondering with games to play with you wife on that open ended statement!

LOL. All kinds of games played on kid free weekends. I'm a very lucky man.

 

[Lawnboi]

@Shraggs ill also add that a lot that is said on here regarding what Iv learned are some of the truths of shooting are mentioned quite a bit in that podcast as well

 

[Flyrodr]

Well, I went to the local (indoor) range, where shooters are required to shoot from existing smooth granite top tables. My primary purpose was to try and determine whether groups were tighter and/or more consistent with a bipod-rear bag combination or with a front bag-rear bag combination. I had previously noticed that when I pressed forward to "load" the bipod, it tended to slide on the slick stone. I took two guns: a Bergara BMR, which has been pretty consistently accurate; and a 6.5CM which is also accurate - - - just a heckuva lot more expensive to shoot. I also took some of that non-skid mesh stuff that goes under throw rugs, and a piece of stiffish packing foam that seemed pretty sticky on my kitchen granite tops.

Started with the .22LR. Ran a few rounds through it to foul the recently-cleaned bore. Group was pretty awful. Shot another group (most all of these are five-shot groups), and it was equally bad. Switched ammo (had taken SK Rifle Match, SK Pistol Match, and some bulk ammo. All were equally good . . . that is, not good.

Nothing was apparently wrong. Fasteners all "felt" tight. No wobbles. Put it away for subsequent inspection with torque wrench (base and rings were installed a few months ago, after cleaning fasteners and holes with acetone, and then installing with torque wrench and blue Loctite. Have not yet looked gun over, but it awaits a close inspection.

Then dragged out 6.5CM. Had taken "cheap" ("relative" defines a broad range, right?) S&B 140gr SP, Hornady 140gr ELD-M, and Hornady 143gr ELD-X. New gun; no handholds yet. This gun/scope shot fine, and, at least for today, in the situation that I was testing (benching from slick table), the bag-bag combo shot better than the bipod-bag. Surprisingly, the S&B SP yielded a 0.833" group, with four into 0.395". I'm really not that good, what with bad eyes (pretty much ready for cataract surgery).

 

[id_jon]

Do you have a link to the target? I’d like to try this.

https://riflekraft.com/images/data_target.pdf

 

[Lawnboi]

https://riflekraft.com/images/data_target.pdf

I just signed up, hopefully I can figure out how to print to scale from emailing the pdf.

 

[id_jon]

If people shoot this and understand what it means/what it’s for….

Doing my best to get all my buddies on this track. Side note, here are two 5 round groups from the same rifle with a scope adjustment in between. For all my shooting life until recently, I have shot 3 round groups so that I'm not "wasting" ammo just shooting groups. I've slowly come to learn that similar to making adjustments after 1 round while zeroing, its better to collect as much data as possible and shoot more rounds between adjustments and before claiming a rifle is 1/4 moa.

 

[Dobermann]

i don’t do podcasts, is there a easy to type explanation?

Well ,... it's on the website links people have provided above.

Key thing is that it's not just "a target"; it's a methodology for finding a baseline and improving. Short version is to:

• Apply science/data collection and sports psychology and high-level athlete training methods to practical shooting (whether comp or hunting)
• Show you what your practical accuracy, in various field positions, actually is
• Provide a way to know what you need to work on (usually which position/s are weakest, but can be used as a baseline for testing the differences in various changes in technique and gear)
• Showing a comparison of your personal results over time
• And showing that most skilled shooters are not "one MOA all day long" in even fairly controlled conditions (Chris has quoted various results over time - and recently said a lot of people's accuracy is improving, so that's changing things - but I think he mentioned a while ago that quite a few "top" shooters were finding they were actually about 2 MOA shooters.)

For hunting, this ties into the "what's your effective range" threads - Chris calls it finding the "Shooter's Bracket".

He now has his own podcast - you don't need an app and can just listen to the first episode here, that has a basic explanation: https://www.podbean.com/media/share/dir-tfyut-12840c94

 

[Shraggs]

Wow thank you dobermann!

That summery compels me to listen to it, which I will.

 

[Lawnboi]

First time doing the Kraft drill today. Really like it. Lots of moving made me feel as if I was getting the most out of my ammo.

Shot the whole thing besides prone off a tripod, attached via picatinny, with no extra rear support. Similar to as I would during a match and some hunting scenarios. Some might say shooting a 10lb suppressed 223, off an RRS tripod is cheating but I decided to shoot this way for starters to get a baseline. I see the tripod with no rear support as the fastest way to get stable without too much monkeying around.

Ignore the upper left. I cleaned carbon and had to foul the barrel. Don’t tell form

Plan is to shoot it more this way and change things up with level of support.

@Shraggs its a good drill to do. One shot prone, sitting, kneeling and standing. Basically do that 3 times so your not shooting the same position for more than one shot at a time.

 

[grappling_hook]

I've been practicing a lot prone off of my daypack with rear bag with my lightweight (8.5 lb) 6.5CM lately, and getting up, moving the gun and pack, and setting up again between shots. I've been working toward decreasing the gap between that and my accuracy shooting from a tripod with rear bag.

I'm pretty happy, today I closed the gap to my satisfaction for hunting purposes. My 10-shot group off of my pack was less than .15 MOA away from my best ever 10-shot group prone off of the tripod with the same gun. And this was shooting factory 143gr ELD-X.

 

[Lawnboi]

I've been practicing a lot prone off of my daypack with rear bag with my lightweight (8.5 lb) 6.5CM lately, and getting up, moving the gun and pack, and setting up again between shots. I've been working toward decreasing the gap between that and my accuracy shooting from a tripod with rear bag.

I'm pretty happy, today I closed the gap to my satisfaction for hunting purposes. My 10-shot group off of my pack was less than .15 MOA away from my best ever 10-shot group prone off of the tripod with the same gun. And this was shooting factory 143gr ELD-X.

It’s amazing what little tweaks make a difference when you get off the bench or locked down position.

 

[Dobermann]

I'm pretty happy, today I closed the gap to my satisfaction for hunting purposes. My 10-shot group off of my pack was less than .15 MOA away from my best ever 10-shot group prone off of the tripod with the same gun. And this was shooting factory 143gr ELD-X.

Great to hear!

This reminds me of a podcast where Chris spoke about going to Rifles Only to train and compete. Jacob Bynum gave them some tips on running slings for practical shooting, and Chris then started using the RO Carbine Sling.

He said that after a relatively short period of training time after that (although, granted, he does shoot a lot of ammo in training, and brings a high-level athlete's focus to his training), he was getting similar results (accuracy and precision) using the RO sling as he was to shooting off a tripod.

Again, you can only find this kind of thing out if you have some kind of way to test it, log it, and compare it.

 

[Lawnboi]

Great to hear!

This reminds me of a podcast where Chris spoke about going to Rifles Only to train and compete. Jacob Bynum gave them some tips on running slings for practical shooting, and Chris then started using the RO Carbine Sling.

He said that after a relatively short period of training time after that (although, granted, he does shoot a lot of ammo in training, and brings a high-level athlete's focus to his training), he was getting similar results (accuracy and precision) using the RO sling as he was to shooting off a tripod.

Again, you can only find this kind of thing out if you have some kind of way to test it, log it, and compare it.

It’s going to be interesting to shoot this drill back to back clipped into the tripod and with a bag on top, I’m sure if one is better than the other it will show itself after a while.

 

[woods89]

I've was reading on Chris Way's blog tonight. Pretty interesting stuff, and I'm going to try to shoot this drill some time in the next few weeks. I fully expect to be humbled.

 

[id_jon]

It’s going to be interesting to shoot this drill back to back clipped into the tripod and with a bag on top, I’m sure if one is better than the other it will show itself after a while.

I clipped into my arca rail today, and went from a 7.6 with the bag on top of the tripod to a 5.2. I think I'll swap back and forth each time I shoot it to see what the comparison is over time. Ideally I'll get to the point where they are very similar.

 

[Lawnboi]

I clipped into my arca rail today, and went from a 7.6 with the bag on top of the tripod to a 5.2. I think I'll swap back and forth each time I shoot it to see what the comparison is over time. Ideally I'll get to the point where they are very similar.

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I think I’ll be doing this drill every time I’m at the range. Initially I was a little put off by his podcast but the more I read on what he’s doing and his methods behind it the more I’m intrigued. Good stuff

And it’s only 12 rounds, better yet, no excuses not to

 

[id_jon]

The amount of time between me knowing about this and actually shooting it makes me feel silly. Now that I've actually started shooting it, I am super excited about how easy it makes it to compare the effectiveness of different things. Main focuses right now are shooting my ar using my sling as support in all positions and shooting my 6 creed all from positions that I can build from what I carry hunting. Kneeling with the pack as front support and tripod as rear support is really solid by the way, going to mess with that more for sure.