What clothes should we buy before PFAS regulations?

[Macintosh]

To be fair, the outdoor industry is a LOT bigger than you are giving it credit for. Kuiu is a tiny company, they are the customer in this case, not the manufacturer. Sitka, owned by wl gore, is the only hunting apparel company im aware of that actually produces fabrics, it also includes the entire outdoor, ski, bike, etc markets. In addition to that, these fabric manufacturers are legit big companies that use the exact same materials and tech not just in outdoor fabric, but also industrial and automotive fabrics, filters, etc. The legislation affects a lot of these the same, it’s not just targeting hunting jackets and boots. We’re talking many, many billions of $ per year worth of manufacturing that used these materials, of which hunting stuff is only a small part.

 

[pugwylde]

And that’s the problem because they are the ones, in addition to pharmaceutical companies, responsible for the bulk of PFAs being released into the environment NOT my hunting gear.

So banning the hunting gear is nothing but more virtue signaling by politicians who want the mindless masses to believe they are helping you when the reality is they don’t care about you. They only care about what that lobbyists is sliding him off the books.

And that is why i never jump off the cliff when the masses say i should as in, “but don’t you care about PFAs in the rivers”. Sure i do but unless we all are willing to look at the real source of the problem and address it there instead of constantly attacking the low hanging fruit (hunters cause we are a minority) i’ll never support their virtue signaling that does nothing but harm smaller companies and make the PFA problem worse down the road. All while those exempted get a free pass and become even wealthier on the false premise it’s a “national security” issue. Your cell phone is most definitely NOT a national security issue. Maybe Trumps is but yours and mine are not. And they can make cell phones without PFAs they just wouldn’t have as slick of screens. But hey, they got gore tex outta boots that should do it

This isn't entirely wrong, or right. The textile industries are pretty heavy contributors to the pollution problem, we just don't feel it keenly in the US.

For the record, they can't actually make cell phones without PFAS. The chips that go into them require PFAS in the manufacturing processes. It isn't that it is cost prohibitive, the technology to build them without PFAS doesn't exist. So, if the US bans them for tech, then we are forced to buy those chips from China... Hence the national security issue.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

This isn't entirely wrong, or right. The textile industries are pretty heavy contributors to the pollution problem, we just don't feel it keenly in the US.

For the record, they can't actually make cell phones without PFAS. The chips that go into them require PFAS in the manufacturing processes. It isn't that it is cost prohibitive, the technology to build them without PFAS doesn't exist. So, if the US bans them for tech, then we are forced to buy those chips from China... Hence the national security issue.

So people are more concerned they have their cell phones than about PFAs getting into their water supply, got it. These bans, again, do nothing to stop the actual problem and really people in general don’t care as much as they’d want you to believe. They act like they care until you tell them you have to give up something they care about, a smart phone for example.

Me, i’d not care in the least if we all had to go back to flip phones and ditch the smart phones and all the garbage and problems that come along with them. Ban em, they have PFAs! But that’s an unpopular opinion so we will continue to put PFAs into the environment via cell phones, peoples drugs, plastics, etc. But hey, got rid of DWR rain jackets, back packs, cooking pans and Gore tex

 

[Wapack]

Anywho. Rain gear for sure is taking the hit. I’ll use my older stuff more sparingly now. And I’ll try to buy another older used set. I tried eVent bio recently and was not impressed at all. With rain gear going forward I can see having to re treat dwr before every hunt to get any function.

Edit. Nikwax products have been non pfas for a while now. So if you use any of there treatments there unchanged.

 

[Jake Larsen]

Anywho. Rain gear for sure is taking the hit. I’ll use my older stuff more sparingly now. And I’ll try to buy another older used set. I tried eVent bio recently and was not impressed at all. With rain gear going forward I can see having to re treat dwr before every hunt to get any function.

Edit. Nikwax products have been non pfas for a while now. So if you use any of there treatments there unchanged.

I wonder if there will be any push to build ultralight versions of rubberized rain gear like HH or similar. If the performance is suffering that badly, it wouldn’t surprise me. A lot of the PNW/AK guys use HH or Grundens even when they had the option for “breathable” stuff full of PFAS and performing at a much higher capacity.


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[Fireflyfishing]

Dang, I just got done hoarding all of my old asbestos facemasks.

 

[Wapack]

Dang, I just got done hoarding all of my old asbestos .

I get that’s tongue in cheek. Gore Tex and the like does not pose a risk to you wearing it (Unlike your asbestos face mask). The manufacturing of it and disposal of it different story. That damage is already done buying used gear. Might as well stay dry. I’m not for “forever chemicals” in fact the opposite. I think new fabric technology will of course fill the void. It’s not there yet though.

 

[Wapack]

I wonder if there will be any push to build ultralight versions of rubberized rain gear like HH or similar. If the performance is suffering that badly, it wouldn’t surprise me. A lot of the PNW/AK guys use HH or Grundens even when they had the option for “breathable” stuff full of PFAS and performing at a much higher capacity.


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I wonder if there will be any push to build ultralight versions of rubberized rain gear like HH or similar. If the performance is suffering that badly, it wouldn’t surprise me. A lot of the PNW/AK guys use HH or Grundens even when they had the option for “breathable” stuff full of PFAS and performing at a much higher capacity.


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I hate rubber rain gear. I get there’s a place and purpose for it but i don’t even have to be moving in it to start sweating. I end up soaked anyway. I read somewhere on here SG has rubber rain gear coming not sure if that’s legit though. Be interesting to see.

 

[Jake Larsen]

I hate rubber rain gear. I get there’s a place and purpose for it but i don’t even have to be moving in it to start sweating. I end up soaked anyway. I read somewhere on here SG has rubber rain gear coming not sure if that’s legit though. Be interesting to see.

I hate it also haha. But I’m also not hunting in SE AK. Just be interested to see how the market responds


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[dwhite0622]

As a firefighter like 75% of rokslide… some of the risks… I believe are the incredible amount of exposure to toxins during fires, yes the protective gear has pfas in them… but often times we are in that gear in a super heated environment which is also teaming with toxic vapor and chemicals, not to mention the endless amount of dumpster, trashcan fires, car fires. I’ve been in this career for 7 years, pretty recently has there been discussion and funding for having 2 sets of bunker gear, (one to get cleaned post fires) cleaning thoroughly after fires ect… prior to this guys had one set that would see dozens of fires or more before they were cleaned. Most fires burn hotter and are largely full of Burning plastics we should look into this stuff but there are lots of factors effecting cancer rates in firemen

This is spot on. There are a handful of factors contributing to firefighters cancer. The top of that list is likely Schmutz from fires, but PFAs are also part of it. One of the best metaphors I’ve ever heard is this: every exposure is a drop in your bucket, and when your bucket it full…. you have cancer. The less exposures you can have the better. All that being said, after seeing some of the turnouts that are “PFA Free”, I can’t imagine rain gear being lighter, cheaper, or more water resistant without the nasty stuff in it.

 

[madtinker]

Just about anything that uses a Viton o-ring will be affected. There are other o-ring materials, but it’s hard to beat the chemical compatibility of viton.

 

[Swichback]

I found this video explains PFAS and the textile industry well.

https://youtu.be/-ht7nOaIkpI?si=LAy8mWMjacHufjeK