What caused the Rokslide shift to smallest caliber and cartridges?

[KHntr]

The only time I’ve seen a bear killed by a square on shoulder shot was from a .300 Weatherby. The bullet penetrated completely and turned everything past the shoulder into jelly. I’ve seen plenty of other rounds not penetrate including .270s and .30-06s.

270’s and 30-06’s not penetrate bears?!?!?!?!???!

Plenty of them?!!!?!
How many is “plenty”?


Tread carefully, some of us have seen a dead bear once or twice.

 

[NMTGrad]

270’s and 30-06’s not penetrate bears?!?!?!?!???!

Plenty of them?!!!?!
How many is “plenty”?


Tread carefully, some of us have seen a dead bear once or twice.

Two .270s and one .30-06 last year. All three hit the shoulders and all three wounded the bears. The bears were not recovered. That was last year. This year so far has been one .375 SOCOM. We also had a client, for some frankly inexplicable reason, try a head shot with a .30-06. He missed and hit the neck. Wounded and not recovered. We didn’t try tracking that one too hard because we were wore out from the last one (the .375 SOCOM one).

The problem is when you’re guiding or running an outfitting operation, you can’t make the shot for the client. We’ve tried everything. Caliber restrictions (not too big, not too small), bullet restrictions, making people shoot before they head to the stands, refusing to send people to the stands who clearly can’t shoot, etc.), putting the stands closer and so on. In the end, people take poor shots for a myriad of reasons. And when they do, I’m the dude who has to try and find the animal. If I had my way, the client list would be way shorter and limited to known shooters. But I’m not the boss, and if that was the case, the boss would be out of business.

Do I wish all hunters were like a lot folks here, constantly honing skills and equipment? Hell yeah. But they’re just not.

 

[KHntr]

Naw, I just don’t waste respect on clowns who let their clients wound a bunch of animals and then decide they are too tired to go look for a wounded one.

 

[MT_Wyatt]

Wow. And again, you RokSliders prove a point I made last month. You don’t hesitate to just spin right up into troll mode. I made no comment towards you to warrant such vitriol. You also seem to judge a business you know nothing about. By all means, come do better. You won’t. I’ve seen plenty others try and fail.

So I will close out my time here on this forum, let it remind me why I rarely ever engage in internet conversations with strangers, and get banned by the moderators forever and be ok with it. Go **** yourself.

OUT of control - regardless of your original intent and point, you’ve lost the plot at this point. You’re not even remotely in the ballpark of the original thread. Your treatment is directly proportional to the manner in which you present yourself with written word.

Take your replies and SBS elsewhere please. No one asked for a bear shoulder diatribe.

 

[cal30_sniper]

Wow. And again, you RokSliders prove a point I made last month. You don’t hesitate to just spin right up into troll mode. I made no comment towards you to warrant such vitriol. You also seem to judge a business you know nothing about. By all means, come do better. You won’t. I’ve seen plenty others try and fail.

So I will close out my time here on this forum, let it remind me why I rarely ever engage in internet conversations with strangers, and get banned by the moderators forever and be ok with it. Go **** yourself.

Weird that thousands of other people get along just fine here…

 

[goalie]

Wow. And again, you RokSliders prove a point I made last month. You don’t hesitate to just spin right up into troll mode. I made no comment towards you to warrant such vitriol. You also seem to judge a business you know nothing about. By all means, come do better. You won’t. I’ve seen plenty others try and fail.

So I will close out my time here on this forum, let it remind me why I rarely ever engage in internet conversations with strangers, and get banned by the moderators forever and be ok with it. Go **** yourself.

"If you meet an ahole in the morning, you met an ahole.

If you meet aholes all day, YOU'RE the ahole."

 

[Forkasauras]

All three hit the shoulders and all three wounded the bears. The bears were not recovered.

How do you know where the bears where shot and that bullets failed to penetrate if the bears were not recovered?

 

[Chris in TN]

How do you know where the bears where shot and that bullets failed to penetrate if the bears were not recovered?

Honestly, there is at least part of what he's saying that I can sort of follow - I might not agree with him but I'm not automatically disregarding everything he says - but, yeah, when I hear 'I shot it with caliber X and didn't recover it' what I hear is 'I didn't recover it therefore any speculation as to why, is just, and only, speculation....

Thirty years ago speculation had a real place as few if any of us had enough experience to do much more than that. But we kinda have data now.

 

[bnewt3]

There are a few facts to consider, some are somewhat recent, some are old, some are as old as humans:

1) The bullet matters and advances in recent years have been made in bullets being more effective on game
2) The vast majority of people shoot better with less recoil
3) In general, humans have a compulsion to push limits and/or convention, AKA innovation(in this case whether its good or not is subjective)
4) Humans seek validation from other humans ie: jumping on a bandwagon for the purpose of being included(i hope this isnt a large driver, but suspect it is more than is good for us)(i also suspect almost none of us realize when this is our motivation)
5) Humans tend to rely on tools more than skills

 

[Thegman]

Two .270s and one .30-06 last year. All three hit the shoulders and all three wounded the bears. The bears were not recovered. That was last year. This year so far has been one .375 SOCOM. We also had a client, for some frankly inexplicable reason, try a head shot with a .30-06. He missed and hit the neck. Wounded and not recovered. We didn’t try tracking that one too hard because we were wore out from the last one (the .375 SOCOM one).

The problem is when you’re guiding or running an outfitting operation, you can’t make the shot for the client. We’ve tried everything. Caliber restrictions (not too big, not too small), bullet restrictions, making people shoot before they head to the stands, refusing to send people to the stands who clearly can’t shoot, etc.), putting the stands closer and so on. In the end, people take poor shots for a myriad of reasons. And when they do, I’m the dude who has to try and find the animal. If I had my way, the client list would be way shorter and limited to known shooters. But I’m not the boss, and if that was the case, the boss would be out of business.

Do I wish all hunters were like a lot folks here, constantly honing skills and equipment? Hell yeah. But they’re just not.

Lack of blood and the bears not being recovered does not equal "bullet not penetrating". Far more likely they penetrated just fine, but bears shot too far forward in the shoulder are often not recovered. I've said this before, but I've killed bears twice, two weeks after I'd shot them too far forward. Bullets not penetrating weren't the issue, at all, my shot placement was the issue.

Last year, one of the bears I shot had also been shot too far forward. I noticed it had a limp as it crossed a mountain. I assumed someone had recently wounded it. The limp was actually from having been shot too far forward. Both front legs had been broken and healed, leaving the bear with a limp.

Front leg bones from one end.


From the other end.