What caliber would you start a hunter with?

[PredatorSlayer]

I bought a howa mini 6 ARC a few months ago and can’t get over how awesome this set up is. I got the “heavy” barrel version and can’t believe how light and accurate it is with factory ammo. If this round was available when my kids were younger, I would have 100% started them out on this. I think there is a version with an adjustable stock. I was already a huge 6mm CM fan, but the 6 ARC recoil is closer to a 223…nothing there.

 

[zr600]

This can depend on the kid. My friends kid at 11 shot her first doe with a 6.5prc 143eldx full load. Gun really didn’t bother her. Her first center fire rifle she shot was a 25-06. Now my daughter I bought her a 243 loaded some 90g gamechangers it shot excellent, her first year she couldn’t handle the recoil, I think it may have been more mental then the physical part of it, but it still bothered her. So she used a 223 that year she grew a bunch and the next year she was fine with the 243. It’s only shooting 90g bullets at 2900. So I would say to be say find a friend with some rifles in 243/6creed, 6.5creedmoor/260rem, 308 win have them try them. I think a 308win regular load for an average kid on average hunting rifle bare muzzle might be a bit much. Some kids can handle it some can’t. Another friend his boy is a bigger kid no problem at 11 with a 270win and regular loads. Really just depends. 7mm-08 might work too.

 

[taskswap]

243, but I'll also vote for the 7mm-08 as well. It's great for experienced adults as well, but shoots soft and can be used for anything short of moose or bear so you get a lot of "life" out of it.

 

[Oncorhynchus.nerka]

I started all of my boys with a .243 in a bolt youth rifle. Practice with reduce recoil loads or varmint loads and hunted with 95 gr SSTs. Deer killing machine.

The 243 Winchester of even the 6 mm Creedmoor are excellent choices for new shooters. However, I do not want to have to purchase two guns for them and I am hesitant to encourage use a 243-diameter bullet on an elk...

 

[Oncorhynchus.nerka]

Kids rifle manifesto

I've chimed in on so many different "what rifle for my age XX kid?" threads that I thought I'd try to consolidate my thoughts here. My oldest son is 14 now, started shooting centerfire rifles at 9. My younger kids started shooting centerfire rifles at between 5-7 yrs old. 5 kids shooting now...

rokslide.com

This is a great link, thanks for sending it along!

 

[Oncorhynchus.nerka]

Pretty hard to beat that 6.5 Creedmoor caliber and that's coming from a guy whose caliber of choice is obvious from my moniker.

I do not reload... if the 7mm-08 had more factory support it would be on the same list. Ballistically it is a great combination of low recoil and relative authority.

 

[Oncorhynchus.nerka]

How old are they and what size human? They need to develop skills to handle and function a rifle safely on their own before ever going "deer hunting".

A good recommendation can be made with some more information.

My nephew, just turned 13, a big little man, my daughter is 9, and she is quite small for her age, and my son is 6 and big for his age. I am looking to pick up one gun that could be used for all three over the next couple of years.

 

[Oncorhynchus.nerka]

I started my son off with a 270 Win with reduced velocity handloads. As he got bigger, I increased the FPS and the recoil that goes with it. He was big for age so he didn't need a youth stock to start with but I'd go that route for smaller kids and then switch to an adult stock as they grow into one.

I shoot a 270 Win and love it. To me it has a similar recoil as a 308 and kills about as effectively -- both great rounds. However, I am leaning away from the .277 diameter as there are less ammunition companies making rounds for it.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

My nephew, just turned 13, a big little man, my daughter is 9, and she is quite small for her age, and my son is 6 and big for his age. I am looking to pick up one gun that could be used for all three over the next couple of years.

Can all 3 handle and function/shoot a .22LR or .17HMR and make consistent hits on their own?

If so, a suppressed .223 shooting 77 TMKs with a compact stock would be the ticket if they're ready.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I am hesitant to encourage use a 243-diameter bullet on an elk...

This is long, and intimidating, but please give it a FULL read through when you get a chance.

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ 176 PAGES? HERE'S THE CHEAT SHEET. “Bullets matter more than headstamps.” “Spent primers offer the supreme tutorial”. I’ve read it here and elsewhere online. It got my attention. I started digging and asking questions and listened. The 77gr TMK delivered by a .223...

rokslide.com

 

[Oncorhynchus.nerka]

6.5 creed will have lower recoil and is ballistically superior in every way. Further effective range, less
recoil, more resistant to wind, and on and on.

Lower recoil when fully charged yes, but if I were to start a youngster with a reduced recoil load, the recoil would be quite similar. Looking at load data, it seems that for mono metal bullets, fully charged, a 308 has more energy at 400 yards and once the littles grow they should be able to handle the increased recoil. I am not a long range shooter.

That being said, ballistically, the 6.5 cm is an amazing round.

 

[Oncorhynchus.nerka]

6.5crd, 7mm-08, 243, 6mmcrd etc. I think getting an adjustable gun set up will help a lot also. I properly fit gun is more enjoyable to shoot and easier on the shoot. So if you can find a caliber above in a normal weight rifle (not light weight) with adjustable length of pull and cheek weld. That is where I would put my money.

I am leaning towards a Savage 110 Storm... a gun that can grow with the littles...

 

[Oncorhynchus.nerka]

ou listed, 6.5 creedmoor with light loads. Personally, with kids, I’d go even lighter if state game laws let me. 6m

Out of the 2 you listed, 6.5 creedmoor with light loads. Personally, with kids, I’d go even lighter if state game laws let me. 6mm creedmoor, .243 Winchester, 6arc. Plenty of evidence on this forum proving the 6mm/243 as a “all around” hunting caliber. Heck a lot of guys prefer a .223 Remington and after seeing the proof, I cannot argue against it.

With elk on the table, I am worried about dropping down to such a small size. If only deer, absolutely! I think the 6ARC would be an ideal deer/pronghorn round...

 

[Oncorhynchus.nerka]

mine was known locally as a "gunsmith" and people often came to him for advice.
He got a cal

Friend of mine was known locally as a "gunsmith" and people often came to him for advice.
He got a call from a gentleman who needed help getting his son ready for his first trip to Colorado. He had bought the kid a rifle and the kid just could NOT hit anything with it!
Mitch met the pair at a local shooting range.
Dad told the kid (12 years old, maybe 110 pounds) to shoot one round to show Mitch.
When the kid pulled the trigger, a choking cloud of Texas dust erupted in front of the bench due to muzzle blast, the kid's cap flew off and recoil nearly flipped him off the bench!
Mitch asked dad what the rifle was.
It was a .300 Wby Mag!
Mitch told dad, "The first thing you need to do is get the kid a rifle he can shoot!"

Dad bought the kid a .243 Win. The pair had a fine trip and Jr. killed a mulie bigger than Dad's!

There are WAY too many fine, low recoil cartridges out there to start a kid on heavy recoil.
In fact, if I started a kid that I would be hunting beside, a .30-30 Win is a fine starter cartridge.....and within it's capabilities, it will take anything on the North American continent!

.257 Rbts
7×57 Mauser
.243 Win

What about AR calibers?

The 30-30 is interesting, but I figure that wtih a reduced 308 recoil load, the recoil/power would be comparable to this great old cartridges, and as they grow, they could increase their power.

 

[Oncorhynchus.nerka]

Can all 3 handle and function/shoot a .22LR or .17HMR and make consistent hits on their own?

If so, a suppressed .223 shooting 77 TMKs with a compact stock would be the ticket if they're ready.

All three are not hunting this year, but looking for one gun that can serve all over the next five years or so... Starting the nephew first, then in the next few years working my way down. They have done well with our 22LRs, I have never shot a 17 HMR.

 

[541hunter]

This may have been already stated but I would absolutely prioritize shooting suppressed. It will benefit the kids in the long run and help with recoil. At 35 years old I have constant ringing in my ears and hope to prevent my son’s from the same fate.

 

[medvedyt]

243 win, 260 rem or 7-08 all coming from the same cartridge family.

 

[The Guide]

The 243 Winchester of even the 6 mm Creedmoor are excellent choices for new shooters. However, I do not want to have to purchase two guns for them and I am hesitant to encourage use a 243-diameter bullet on an elk...

With elk on the table, I am worried about dropping down to such a small size. If only deer, absolutely! I think the 6ARC would be an ideal deer/pronghorn round...

You might want to look at this thread before you rule out using a 6mm cartridge. Lots bear, elk, caribou, and moose killed with 6mm bullets in that thread.

6mm /.243 hunting success on Big Game

With the success of .223 and 6.5 threads on big game, thought I’d throw this one into the mix. Show and detail your results harvesting big game (deer, bear, elk, moose, African game) using 6mm/.243 cartridges. Please detail bullet, MV, impact velocity, and whether hand load or factory ammo.

rokslide.com

Jay

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Lower recoil when fully charged yes, but if I were to start a youngster with a reduced recoil load, the recoil would be quite similar. Looking at load data, it seems that for mono metal bullets, fully charged, a 308 has more energy at 400 yards and once the littles grow they should be able to handle the increased recoil. I am not a long range shooter.

That being said, ballistically, the 6.5 cm is an amazing round.

A .308 kicks significantly more than a 6.5 CM depending on the load. If you stay in the 160 range (15ish pounds of recoil) or lighter it is still more than full power 6.5 CM (11ish foot pounds). However, if you move up to the 180s (unnecessary) it can be quite stout in an unsuppressed/braked rifle.

Also, do not worry about energy. This provides no indication about how a given bullet will perform. Instead lean on minimum FPS for terminal performance. For example, Hornady ELDM and ELDX expand reliably down to 1800 FPS, whereas partitions, accubonds, and barnes all copper bullets typically need 2000-2200 fps impact velocity.

The .223, .243/6mm, .257, .264/6.5mm, .277, and .284 are all more than adequate on elk given the appropriate cartridge and bullets. No need to get anything bigger. Guys have already referred or linked to the threads on Rokslide where this fact has been proven ad nauseum.

If it were me and I was buying one gun for the 3 kiddos and the goal is for all to be able to shoot it well relatively quickly, the "cost" of entry is the lowest for the .223 in terms of recoil and practice. If you stick with heavy expanding bullets they will do well. If you're not comfortable with a cartridge this small, my next pick would be a 6 Creed. Granted there is better ammo availability for the .243, but over time that will change.

 

[The Guide]

A .308 kicks significantly more than a 6.5 CM depending on the load. If you stay in the 160 range (15ish pounds of recoil) or lighter it is still more than full power 6.5 CM (11ish foot pounds). However, if you move up to the 180s (unnecessary) it can be quite stout in an unsuppressed/braked rifle.

Also, do not worry about energy. This provides no indication about how a given bullet will perform. Instead lean on minimum FPS for terminal performance. For example, Hornady ELDM and ELDX expand reliably down to 1800 FPS, whereas partitions, accubonds, and barnes all copper bullets typically need 2000-2200 fps impact velocity.

The .223, .243/6mm, .257, .264/6.5mm, .277, and .284 are all more than adequate on elk given the appropriate cartridge and bullets. No need to get anything bigger. Guys have already referred or linked to the threads on Rokslide where this fact has been proven ad nauseum.

If it were me and I was buying one gun for the 3 kiddos and the goal is for all to be able to shoot it well relatively quickly, the "cost" of entry is the lowest for the .223 in terms of recoil and practice. If you stick with heavy expanding bullets they will do well. If you're not comfortable with a cartridge this small, my next pick would be a 6 Creed. Granted there is better ammo availability for the .243, but over time that will change.

Oregon requirements for elk are 6mm I believe. But, a gun in 223 and one in a 6mm cartridge would be the best long-term option in my opinion. Kids will do better building shooting skills with a small 22 caliber centerfire than a 308.

Jay