WEZ hit rates.

[huntnful]

I need A LOT of time shooting in heavy winds before I would feel confident doing this.


Super impressive shot. Just calculating this out, assuming your gun is a 10-11mph gun in these conditions, I'm getting about a 0.6mil right hold. This looks like a mil Tenmile reticle, is it? If so I'd say that's about where you hit... What was your wind hold and process on this shot?

This was the Mil 3-18X44 FFP Tenmile.

This wind was at my back right quarter, but also felt like it would come straight up my back sometimes. If I hold a legit right wind call, and it shifts straight up my back, I’m missing vitals. If I hold far right vitals, and it switches straight up my back I’m not missing. And if it stays at the right quarter, it’ll land in the vitals somewhere.



Wind clearly shifted straight up my back at the time of shot and I had zero wind drift. I was just holding for forgiveness, and it worked.

 

[HuntHarder]

Yes, but the difference is slight. It just comes down to the fact that larger numbers and base-4 add complexity and complication compared to smaller numbers that are base-10. But again, if your BRF reads out a number that you’re inputting into your turret or holding with the reticle, the advantage is slight.

Makes sense to me. I appreciate the knowledge.

 

[huntnful]

I need A LOT of time shooting in heavy winds before I would feel confident doing this.


Super impressive shot. Just calculating this out, assuming your gun is a 10-11mph gun in these conditions, I'm getting about a 0.6mil right hold. This looks like a mil Tenmile reticle, is it? If so I'd say that's about where you hit... What was your wind hold and process on this shot?

Here’s another. I don’t have a reticle video to prove what I did. But, this was like a 15 MPH head wind. Changing from left to right constantly. Instead of making a wind call one way or another and trying to time it, and either being right, or double wrong. I just held center of vitals and let fate decide. Push it wherever you like, and the deer is dying. Again, just shooting for forgiveness.

 

[Formidilosus]

I do the same thing, but I add .1 mill of spindrift after 500

I would like to add, however in case it wasn’t obvious to some people this method of calculating wind holds Works nearly the same in MOA.
Wind hold in number or clicks ie 1/4 moa =(range/100)*(wind speed/rifle wind rating)*crosswind component

Lets try 500 yard 12 mph 9 o’clock wind
(range/100)-> 500/ 100 =5
wind speed/rifle wind rating) -> 12/4 =3
crosswind component -> 9 o’clock is 1

So 5x 3 x 1 =15 clicks or 15 / 4 moa =3.75 moa

Theoretically it works the same with an extra step or two- but I have never seen an MOA shooter be able to do it under stress.

 

[huntnful]

Theoretically it works the same with an extra step or two- but I have never seen an MOA shooter be able to do it under stress.

What if they don’t stress about killing animals . Quit making everyone stress out all the damn time! Hahaha joking

 

[Formidilosus]

What if they don’t stress about killing animals . Quit making everyone stress out all the damn time! Hahaha joking

You have more faith in hunters. I see a lot of disasters on animals. The amount of people that are good game killers is laughably small. You seem to be like @Ryan Avery was when I met him. Didn’t really have a process and just kind of “knew” what to do with big bullets going fast. And that works great… until it doesn’t. Everyone thinks they are that person, they’re not.

I don’t need a mil or MOA reticle to hit and kill at silly ranges- I know wind holds just based on target size and anatomy and it isn’t hard for me to use a regular duplex for it. But that doesn’t work for others.
What I say and do is based on seeing hundreds of people shoot animals, and thousands shoot targets in the field. Lots of people do ok when everything goes right, I try to get people to shoot in ways that helps get them out of the holes they dug when it goes wrong.

 

[Okie_Poke]

What if they don’t stress about killing animals .

I can be calm as a cucumber watching something, but as soon as I decide I'm going to shoot it's an instant adrenaline dump. Happened to me last week. I'm probably on the more high-strung/nervy side of the spectrum, but it's a thing for me.

 

[huntnful]

Man, I see a lot of disasters on animals. The amount of people that are good game killers is laughably small. You seem to be like @Ryan Avery

It’s probably because I have red hair and no soul lol. But really, I don’t get worked up very much during my own hunts.

BUT my wife just killed her first animal, a cow elk. And that is the FIRST time I ever had my hands trembling after a kill. And I didn’t even kill the damn thing hahaha. I think it was anticipation of the shot and the outcome or something.

 

[wind gypsy]

Here’s another. I don’t have a reticle video to prove what I did. But, this was like a 15 MPH head wind. Changing from left to right constantly. Instead of making a wind call one way or another and trying to time it, and either being right, or double wrong. I just held center of vitals and let fate decide. Push it wherever you like, and the deer is dying. Again, just shooting for forgiveness.

How far right of POA was the POI? Enough that a 77 TMK @ 2800 FPS would have been way too far forward compared to a 180 ELD at warp speed?

 

[huntnful]

I can be calm as a cucumber watching something, but as soon as I decide I'm going to shoot it's an instant adrenaline dump. Happened to me last week. I'm probably on the more high-strung/nervy side of the spectrum, but it's a thing for me.

I get that!! It’s a good feeling to have and embrace. It’s what makes hunting great.

I’m literally just on the spectrum in general unfortunately

 

[huntnful]

How far right of POA was the POI? Enough that a 77 TMK @ 2800 FPS would have been way too far forward compared to a 180 ELD at warp speed?

Shit I can check. I was probably 5” right of POA. There wasn’t much more room further forward for extra drift. 3 more inches maybe?

 

[Formidilosus]

It’s probably because I have red hair and no soul lol. But really, I don’t get worked up very much during my own hunts.

BUT my wife just killed her first animal, a cow elk. And that is the FIRST time I ever had my hands trembling after a kill. And I didn’t even kill the damn thing hahaha. I think it was anticipation of the shot and the outcome or something.

Yep, I can see that. I go out with a bunch of hunters- not my group, and I am just there watching and to help if needed. Clean kills happen maybe 10-20% of the time- MAYBE.

Posted too soon. Reread the post for the rest.

 

[huntnful]

How far right of POA was the POI? Enough that a 77 TMK @ 2800 FPS would have been way too far forward compared to a 180 ELD at warp speed?

The entry to shift my POA 1 MOA at 480 yards in that scenario.



Same entry with 77TMK at 2800fps

 

[huntnful]

Yep, I can see that. I go out with a bunch of hunters- not my group, and I am just there watching and to help if needed. Clean kills happen maybe 10-20% of the time- MAYBE.

Posted too soon. Reread the post for the rest.

I’ve definitely seen some rodeos. Mostly caused by emotion and rushing. The ones I’ve been a part of anyways. And most of the guys to get emotional and rush, can’t shoot, so it compounds lol.

And I’m not perfect. I’ve had my own rodeos. Don’t get me wrong. But they’re self induced from long range shooting .

 

[Jordan Smith]

Good question. Probably about half of that is spin drift. The other half might be aerodynamic jump and possibly exaggerated? Spin drift is going to be a constant at given distance. Basically at that distance id just assume 0.1 mil right for spin drift. The other half (if it's AJ) can seem over reported. If it's windy enough that it's a factor I probably shouldn't be shooting at an animal.

So basically rather than relying on a calculator to tell wind holds, using MPH gun and maybe adding a 0.1mil right (for RH twist barrels). I'll say that with some practice w/ binos like the sig 10k g2 you can adjust wind pretty quick in the binos.

The difference in wind drift between 3:00 and 9:00 wind is spin drift. AJ causes deflection in the perpendicular axis to the wind direction, so L/R winds cause vertical deflection.

 

[wind gypsy]

The difference in wind drift between 3:00 and 9:00 wind is spin drift. AJ causes deflection in the perpendicular axis to the wind direction, so L/R winds cause vertical deflection.

There is a slight horizontal impact as well but to the point, probably not near a 0.1 mil with a full value 10 MPH? What else would be causing 0.75 MOA variance of windage based on right vs left full value wind? There's not that much spin drift at 550 yards.

 

[Jordan Smith]

Note that I am not saying that moa is a superior math system to mrad. I am simply saying that simple hacks can be developed for either, and at the end of the day, neither system is mathematically superior.

I wouldn’t go that far, but the differences may not be game changing.

Easier to remember that wind drift is 0.1 mrad per 100 meters out to 600-700 meters, for a given wind speed, but both systems can be made to work.

 

[Harvey_NW]

People shouldn’t be. I just used that as an example. Even 3-4 mph, i can’t remember the last animal that the wind call was the same as it was at the shooter.
If you shoot across a canyon- the wind isn’t the same at the gun, as it is in the middle of the canyon, as it is on the far side. Fortunately big game animals are big, but when I hear people say “I just read what the RF or Kestrel tells me to hold”; it makes me think they don’t have all that much experience shooting in wind in broken terrain.

Agreed. I do live in broken mountainous terrain (E slope of the Cascades) and shoot up there regularly. The CBC is humbling. I missed just outside the right edge of my MER target at 804 by misjudging undetectable canyon wind by a couple MPH.

 

[Okie_Poke]

There is a slight horizontal impact as well but to the point, probably not near a 0.1 mil with a full value 10 MPH? What else would be causing 0.75 MOA variance of windage based on right vs left full value wind? There's not that much spin drift at 550 yards.

Just pushing buttons in my Geoballistics app with this: But 2/3 of it comes on and off when I toggle "spin drift" and 1/3 of with "coriolis effect" (shooting due north). "Crosswind jump," which I presume is their word for aerodynamic jump, is all in the vertical. Running the same 550 yard scenario as earlier.

 

[Jordan Smith]

There is a slight horizontal impact as well but to the point, probably not near a 0.1 mil with a full value 10 MPH? What else would be causing 0.75 MOA variance of windage based on right vs left full value wind? There's not that much spin drift at 550 yards.

What makes you think that there’s a horizontal component to the displacement caused by AJ in a L/R wind?