Western Mountaineering Down compared to others in moisture

[Kyle Wheeler]

I’ve seen this discussed some on here but curious if anyone has had issues with the WM sleeping bag if they get wet or tested this?

I was listening to the Rokslide podcast and the Stone Glacier Grumman did very well in the rain compared to other down jackets that Ryan tested and it got me thinking if the Chilkoot would outperform others as well if wet even WM.

I prefer the USA made and option to add over fill but would be curious others have experienced any downsides of the WM down and if they have compared to chilkoot as an example of a down bag with treated down or even the Kuiu bags.

Thanks!

 

[Gingerbeardman26]

Pulled this directly off of western mountaineerings FAQ. Explains it pretty well as to why they don’t used treated down.

“Why isn’t Western Mountaineering using hydrophobic down in any products?

We have found in our own testing that the performance enhancements of hydrophobic treatments on high quality down are widely overstated. High quality untreated down already has naturally water repellant oils on it left by the geese (makes sense since geese spend a lot of time in water). These oils help repel water and keep down lofted. More importantly is that these oils last indefinitely. Hydrophobic treatments wash out like a DWR and remove the natural oils during the application process. Because of this, and the water resistant capability of our shell fabrics, we feel that hydrophobic down does not provide a considerable impact on performance and could actually inhibit performance over the lifetime of our products.”

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Compare bag material's hydrostatic head values against some popular tents. For example:

• WM Extremelite fabric- 1200 mm (same as Kuiu Mountain Star, Summit Refuge)
• WM Microfiber fabric - 2000 mm
• WM Gore Windstopper - 12000 mm

My Antelope has the MF fabric and I've never had an issue with it in AK in a variety of weather.

My MegaLight has the Extremelight fabric. That bag has taught me a lot about down and the urban myth of wet down; you know the one where if there is one water molecule in 1000 miles the bag is ruined. Sustained indirect exposure to daily thunderstorms and humidity higher than Kodiak had no impact over 30+ consecutive nights on the bag staying warm and dry. The foot box did take a direct hit from a long thunderstorm and then a 2+ hour soak time. Only the top half of the foot box soaked through. Dumped the water, hopped in, went to sleep and had a dry bag in the AM.

So what did I learn? First, down pants and jackets get wet all of the time and we don't panic; we just tend to bake them dry with our own body heat. Folks tend to forget that this also applies to down bags. Second, a whole lot has to go wrong for the bag to get wet. Third, in the event of a true emergency there are options. You could share a bag with another guide/hunter to stay warm. You could throw your puffy jacket and pants on, then put your rain gear on over them, and hop in the wet bag. You'll start baking the bag dry. And in a true SHTF situation, just have a Super Cub drop you a Wiggys.

 

[Kyle Wheeler]

Pulled this directly off of western mountaineerings FAQ. Explains it pretty well as to why they don’t used treated down.

“Why isn’t Western Mountaineering using hydrophobic down in any products?

We have found in our own testing that the performance enhancements of hydrophobic treatments on high quality down are widely overstated. High quality untreated down already has naturally water repellant oils on it left by the geese (makes sense since geese spend a lot of time in water). These oils help repel water and keep down lofted. More importantly is that these oils last indefinitely. Hydrophobic treatments wash out like a DWR and remove the natural oils during the application process. Because of this, and the water resistant capability of our shell fabrics, we feel that hydrophobic down does not provide a considerable impact on performance and could actually inhibit performance over the lifetime of our products.”

Thank you for sharing! This makes a lot of sense. The podcast today by Ryan got me thinking as the jackets performed differently.

 

[Kyle Wheeler]

Compare bag material's hydrostatic head values against some popular tents. For example:

• WM Extremelite fabric- 1200 mm (same as Kuiu Mountain Star, Summit Refuge)
• WM Microfiber fabric - 2000 mm
• WM Gore Windstopper - 12000 mm

My Antelope has the MF fabric and I've never had an issue with it in AK in a variety of weather.

My MegaLight has the Extremelight fabric. That bag has taught me a lot about down and the urban myth of wet down; you know the one where if there is one water molecule in 1000 miles the bag is ruined. Sustained indirect exposure to daily thunderstorms and humidity higher than Kodiak had no impact over 30+ consecutive nights on the bag staying warm and dry. The foot box did take a direct hit from a long thunderstorm and then a 2+ hour soak time. Only the top half of the foot box soaked through. Dumped the water, hopped in, went to sleep and had a dry bag in the AM.

So what did I learn? First, down pants and jackets get wet all of the time and we don't panic; we just tend to bake them dry with our own body heat. Folks tend to forget that this also applies to down bags. Second, a whole lot has to go wrong for the bag to get wet. Third, in the event of a true emergency there are options. You could share a bag with another guide/hunter to stay warm. You could throw your puffy jacket and pants on, then put your rain gear on over them, and hop in the wet bag. You'll start baking the bag dry. And in a true SHTF situation, just have a Super Cub drop you a Wiggys.

Wow! This is incredible feedback thank you. So the Extremelight itself is very resistant it seems based on your experience. That is the one I was questioning.

I am surprised in a good way by your results and this gives me confidence that really any bag from WM is going to be a solid choice for most conditions as long as you are aware of the limitations.

You are right with puffy pants and jacket as well. Thanks again!

 

[Freestone]

I have used WM GWS bags for years in Alaska for 2 months at a time and have never had a single issue with moisture. People say that the GWS doesn’t breath and traps moisture but my experience has been the opposite of that. I’ve climbed in that bag soaking wet and it has always maintained loft and dried my clothes.

I also know a lot of guys that have great things to say about the SG bags as well.


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[Gingerbeardman26]

I purchased a Feathered Friends bag a couple years ago. They told me pretty much the same thing that WM said about their down and shell materials. I doubt Kuiu or Stone Glacier are using lower quality materials, but neither makes their sleeping bags domestically, if that is important to you, but it also means they have less control over how their bags are made. It’s been said elsewhere by people with more gear knowledge than me, but Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends are what I would consider subject matter experts when it comes to down bags.

 

[snowymtnwolf]

Regardless of how good or great the water repellent characteristics are — use a bivy to protect from water and treat your bag with your life.

One a trip - I personally take care of my bag the most. I can do without a lot of necessities, but to me, my sleeping bag is my lifeline for a plethora of reasons.

Just my .02


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[Formidilosus]

I’ve seen this discussed some on here but curious if anyone has had issues with the WM sleeping bag if they get wet or tested this?

I was listening to the Rokslide podcast and the Stone Glacier Grumman did very well in the rain compared to other down jackets that Ryan tested and it got me thinking if the Chilkoot would outperform others as well if wet even WM.

I prefer the USA made and option to add over fill but would be curious others have experienced any downsides of the WM down and if they have compared to chilkoot as an example of a down bag with treated down or even the Kuiu bags.

Thanks!

I have extensively used every bag/company mentioned so far. The fear over good down wetting out is way overblown. However, Stone Glacier is the only down product I have used, that I treat like synthetic.

 

[Kyle Wheeler]

I have used WM GWS bags for years in Alaska for 2 months at a time and have never had a single issue with moisture. People say that the GWS doesn’t breath and traps moisture but my experience has been the opposite of that. I’ve climbed in that bag soaking wet and it has always maintained loft and dried my clothes.

I also know a lot of guys that have great things to say about the SG bags as well.


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Thank you for sharing! There are some good options out there now

 

[Kyle Wheeler]

I purchased a Feathered Friends bag a couple years ago. They told me pretty much the same thing that WM said about their down and shell materials. I doubt Kuiu or Stone Glacier are using lower quality materials, but neither makes their sleeping bags domestically, if that is important to you, but it also means they have less control over how their bags are made. It’s been said elsewhere by people with more gear knowledge than me, but Western Mountaineering and Feathered Friends are what I would consider subject matter experts when it comes to down bags.

Thank you! This is helpful!

 

[Kyle Wheeler]

I have extensively used every bag/company mentioned so far. The fear over good down wetting out is way overblown. However, Stone Glacier is the only down product I have used, that I treat like synthetic.

This is super helpful! I have the SG down jacket and listened to Ryan’s podcast on it. I think it is pretty neat how they have lightweight down products handling moisture so well. Appreciate it!

 

[Norlund1776]

For what it's worth, I have a Kodiak 0 and Even when it torches condensation on tent walls all night, I've never gotten the down wet. And the small amount of wetness dries out fast.

 

[shedhead]

I have a WM badger and have gotten it very wet on several occasions and I am extremely impressed how fast it will dry out


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[Weber]

Stone Glacier Chilkoot Vs Kuiu Super Down Sleeping Bag Vs Western Mountaineering Badger??

I currently have a SG 15. Have been really happy with the warmth and quality of the bag. But I’m looking for something with more room inside. I have some hip issues and need to bend my knees up individually. Any recommendation other than a quilt?

rokslide.com

some thoughts

 

[tracker12]

I bought a W MNT bag 22 years ago. One of the best investments I have ever made. It has been everywhere in all kinds of weather and still like new.

 

[Abrugger12]

Wow! This is incredible feedback thank you. So the Extremelight itself is very resistant it seems based on your experience. That is the one I was questioning.

I am surprised in a good way by your results and this gives me confidence that really any bag from WM is going to be a solid choice for most conditions as long as you are aware of the limitations.

You are right with puffy pants and jacket as well. Thanks again!

Whole line of WM bags using the extremelite material. I have been running a Megalite model for the last few years and find that it has surpassed any and all expectations. extremely light and compressible in my pack (I don't use a stuff sack) and re-lofts extremely well, any kind of dampness has almost never reached the down its-self as the bag material maintains some decent water repellency.

 

[Kyle Wheeler]

Whole line of WM bags using the extremelite material. I have been running a Megalite model for the last few years and find that it has surpassed any and all expectations. extremely light and compressible in my pack (I don't use a stuff sack) and re-lofts extremely well, any kind of dampness has almost never reached the down its-self as the bag material maintains some decent water repellency.

Awesome thank you for sharing!