Western Mountaineering Badger GWS- Worthless- a review

[3forks]

All the urban outdoorsman I talk with in downtown Denver swear by their Western Mountaineering bags. Lots of them say they won’t even zip them up even when it’s below zero because they get too hot.

I‘m not sure what the R value of a flattened cardboard box is, but that’s what they using for a pad. And, those guys aren’t using merino wool… they just add layer after layer of sweatshirts wino style during the coldest of nights.

Also, the GWS bags are highly water resistant. I heard one guy say he spilled a whole bottle of Mad Dog 20/20 on his bag after he passed out, and when he woke up - he was still 100% dry.

 

[sneaky]

I am here to give a review on my Western Mountaineering Badger GWS 6'6" bag, that i bought in july this year and have about 120+ bag nights in. Im actually in it right now, out in the woods of western oregon.

I always wondered why i stayed cold in this 15 degree bag, but after a conversation with a backcountry.com rep last night, there seem to be some issues with their rating system. This bag is rated at a 15 degree survival rating, the comfort rating is 30 degrees, and thats in a 4-season tent, on a 4.5 r-value pad, wearing merino long underwear. Having to purchase an additional $1000+ in gear to have a comfort rating twice the advertised degree rating of the bag isnt just disingenuous, its a fabrication, a lie.

I am currently in a Sierra Designs 4 season tent, on a klymit sv insulated 4.4 r value pad, in minus 33 merino long underwear top, bottom, socks, hat, in my badger GWS sleeping bag. Its 41 degrees per my phone, very light breeze. Im uncomfortable, cold, not getting sleep. Ive been in this spot for 2 nights, lots of tree protection. My sleeping bag is put in a stuff sack every night, taken out and used. Its not a big deal to sleep bad a few nights, but im going on 3 solid months of it, with 15+ mile days of walking, and the expectation when purchasing something, especially as expensive as this bag, is that it actually do what it says it will.

This is going to be some editoralizing, but has been my experience with every single outdoor gear manufacturer. Lots of great reviews in whatever the product is, which then fails in the field. Before this bag i had a old north face down 0, kifaru 0 slick bag (both side and center zip versions), a feathered friends 0. I live outside. Walk everywhere i go, occasional freight ride. I depend on gear to live. I actually depend on it, theres no going back to a house, or getting in a car with the heat on. I wish just one company would make a product that lives up to the marketing hype. I read reviews for western mountaineering all over the web, folks raving about how great they are. But i wonder if anyone even uses stuff anymore, or if its all just ego boosting fluff online.

As a side note, getting in touch with Western Mountaineering is a massive pain. Theres no contact number, emails go unanswered. That means whatever warranty is worthless.

Apologies for not having the post count to be taken seriously on a online forum dedicated to outdoor pursuits and gear.

Have a nice day!

The Backcountry rep lied to you, but that's typical from them.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[sneaky]

GWS bags also perform better in cold, dry temps. You should have bought the microfiber version, rain in western Oregon be damned. The MF shell has a better hydrostatic head rating than most tent fabrics do. You're trapping moisture in your down, stuffing it in a sack and not airing it out. That's operator error, not the bag's fault. Also, your sleeping pad sucks. Look up actual R values on Section Hiker's list of tested R value ratings on pads. Klymit doesn't make a pad that actually tests over 2.4 or so. Buy a good pad, not one at a deal. Eat before going to bed. I don't care how many nights you've spent in the bag, you're not doing it right and blaming it on the bag. Thousands of people all over the world are rolling their eyes at what the moron at Backcountry told you, and the fact that you believed them. But, hey, welcome to the forum. Not surprising when drive by bad reviews come through and then the reviewer disappears conveniently.

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[LaHunter]

I bet that bag smells like something died in it, after 120 nights in it without washing it. I am guessing showers are few and far between for the OP, since he lives in a tent.

 

[Drenalin]

I may be wrong, but isn’t any accurate bag rating based on a pad r-value of 4+ and the user wearing a base layer?

Has the bag not worked for you since day 1, or is this something that’s happened over time?

 

[sneaky]

I may be wrong, but isn’t any accurate bag rating based on a pad r-value of 4+ and the user wearing a base layer?

Has the bag not worked for you since day 1, or is this something that’s happened over time?

I doubt you get an answer from the drive by reviewer. And, yes, the ratings are done on a pad of R 4.2 or thereabouts.

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[woodsready]

Been in the woods y'all. Thank you to those who had a decent suggestion on something to try.
I still have the badger, but added a couple surplus will blankets- much better.
To address a few things-
The pad was a INSULATED klymit sv recon- 4.4 r-value. It has since delaminated, I've gone back to a ridgerest. Whether the 4.4 is an honest rating, I don't know, every product sold these days is advertised with lies or exaggerations, backed up with reviews by the kind of folks who come home, log into the ol www to post opinions.

I pay no money for transportation, lodging or hardly food. Work cash manual labor jobs when I need to, stay out as long as possible. I do have good gear- which I purchase with my hard earned money. I'm not a wino, or a drug addict- assumption is the mother of all fuckups. I don't care for junkies or other "homeless", don't go where they do. I have no debt, bills, or "necessities"/ creature comforts that most require. I'm frustrated with how many of you have shit to talk, but couldn't imagine living the way I do. No matter. I'm freer than you will ever be, tied down with mortgages, car payments, jobs, consuming and buying your way to the end, mindlessly mimicking each other in pursuit of the next shiny object. (I'm sure that's not all of you, but probably the assholes with something to say about the way I live my life)- so I have something to say about yours. I rarely spend time on the internet. I guess the higher post count and more "likes" you have the better the hunter or outdoorsman you are.

My feeling on the outdoor gear industry is that it sells primarily to keyboard warriors who have wonderful things to say about stuff they rarely if ever use, gear closets and safes full of unboxed and then never used items. It's not a review if you use the thing 3 weekends a year in nice conditions. It's certainly not much of a review if you use it and then return to the warmth of your temperature controlled car/ house.

Youll have fun at anyone's expense- it's bully mentality that shows you're actually just cowards. I'm sure the kids you're raising are perfect close minded judgemental clones of yourselves.

Thank you to the few decent responses. I did a lot of research before I bought this bag, even on this site, sorry I didn't run it by the interwebs experts first. I'll never bother again.

 

[sneaky]

Been in the woods y'all. Thank you to those who had a decent suggestion on something to try.
I still have the badger, but added a couple surplus will blankets- much better.
To address a few things-
The pad was a INSULATED klymit sv recon- 4.4 r-value. It has since delaminated, I've gone back to a ridgerest. Whether the 4.4 is an honest rating, I don't know, every product sold these days is advertised with lies or exaggerations, backed up with reviews by the kind of folks who come home, log into the ol www to post opinions.

I pay no money for transportation, lodging or hardly food. Work cash manual labor jobs when I need to, stay out as long as possible. I do have good gear- which I purchase with my hard earned money. I'm not a wino, or a drug addict- assumption is the mother of all fuckups. I don't care for junkies or other "homeless", don't go where they do. I have no debt, bills, or "necessities"/ creature comforts that most require. I'm frustrated with how many of you have shit to talk, but couldn't imagine living the way I do. No matter. I'm freer than you will ever be, tied down with mortgages, car payments, jobs, consuming and buying your way to the end, mindlessly mimicking each other in pursuit of the next shiny object. (I'm sure that's not all of you, but probably the assholes with something to say about the way I live my life)- so I have something to say about yours. I rarely spend time on the internet. I guess the higher post count and more "likes" you have the better the hunter or outdoorsman you are.

My feeling on the outdoor gear industry is that it sells primarily to keyboard warriors who have wonderful things to say about stuff they rarely if ever use, gear closets and safes full of unboxed and then never used items. It's not a review if you use the thing 3 weekends a year in nice conditions. It's certainly not much of a review if you use it and then return to the warmth of your temperature controlled car/ house.

Youll have fun at anyone's expense- it's bully mentality that shows you're actually just cowards. I'm sure the kids you're raising are perfect close minded judgemental clones of yourselves.

Thank you to the few decent responses. I did a lot of research before I bought this bag, even on this site, sorry I didn't run it by the interwebs experts first. I'll never bother again.

Sleeping Pad R-Values of 2024 - SectionHiker.com

A backpacking or camping sleeping pad's R-value measures its resistance to heat loss to the ground w

sectionhiker.com

Ok, Mr Expert. It isn't internet fanboy drivel, it's scientifically backed fact that Klymit pads don't come anywhere near their advertised R values and the data is there to prove as much. Lot of people on this forum found that out the hard way long before the pads were officially tested. Klymit was the last manufacturer to get their pads tested. I wonder why? Klymit doesn't have any pad that scores higher than 2.4 on R value. They still print inflated R value numbers on their labels. That's summer pad rating numbers and ANY bag is going to feel colder in winter weather on a summer rated pad.

 

[NRA4LIFE]

I agree with others. In 41 degree weather I'd sleep unzipped in that bag, near naked. Have you thought about an additional thin, inner bag? Mine I believe will increase comfort by 10 degrees. Extremely lightweight and compact.

 

[Ryan Avery]

Been in the woods y'all. Thank you to those who had a decent suggestion on something to try.
I still have the badger, but added a couple surplus will blankets- much better.
To address a few things-
The pad was a INSULATED klymit sv recon- 4.4 r-value. It has since delaminated, I've gone back to a ridgerest. Whether the 4.4 is an honest rating, I don't know, every product sold these days is advertised with lies or exaggerations, backed up with reviews by the kind of folks who come home, log into the ol www to post opinions.

I pay no money for transportation, lodging or hardly food. Work cash manual labor jobs when I need to, stay out as long as possible. I do have good gear- which I purchase with my hard earned money. I'm not a wino, or a drug addict- assumption is the mother of all fuckups. I don't care for junkies or other "homeless", don't go where they do. I have no debt, bills, or "necessities"/ creature comforts that most require. I'm frustrated with how many of you have shit to talk, but couldn't imagine living the way I do. No matter. I'm freer than you will ever be, tied down with mortgages, car payments, jobs, consuming and buying your way to the end, mindlessly mimicking each other in pursuit of the next shiny object. (I'm sure that's not all of you, but probably the assholes with something to say about the way I live my life)- so I have something to say about yours. I rarely spend time on the internet. I guess the higher post count and more "likes" you have the better the hunter or outdoorsman you are.

My feeling on the outdoor gear industry is that it sells primarily to keyboard warriors who have wonderful things to say about stuff they rarely if ever use, gear closets and safes full of unboxed and then never used items. It's not a review if you use the thing 3 weekends a year in nice conditions. It's certainly not much of a review if you use it and then return to the warmth of your temperature controlled car/ house.

Youll have fun at anyone's expense- it's bully mentality that shows you're actually just cowards. I'm sure the kids you're raising are perfect close minded judgemental clones of yourselves.

Thank you to the few decent responses. I did a lot of research before I bought this bag, even on this site, sorry I didn't run it by the interwebs experts first. I'll never bother again.

I have the same bag and love it. It has well over a hundred nights of use and has kept me warm on nights where the temperature was in the teens. It could be the pad or you could be a cold sleeper.

 

[*zap*]

The op needs to get a real pad for cold......not klymit. and not foam, even together that is not enough for cold, cold...

 

[jnawalaniec]

This is old news. Has been going on forever. Most don’t realize or they do sleep in tent, sheltered from wind, on appropriate pad, etc etc.

My dad sleeps in a sleeping bag outside about 350 days each and every year.

Majority of sleeping bag rations are total BS, yes, this is a fact. Survival at X temp and comfort at temp (but it’s all in personal opinion because we all have different body composition, blood flow, mental toughness, etc.

Granted, a select few top of the line brands “likely” do have somewhat accurate ratings, but again it all comes back to your body type.

My dad has a Marmot CVM -40 and used it year around (unzipped in warm weather). The Pennsylvania weather hardly ever gets below zero. And he is old, so his blood flow is not optimal, therefore he needs a bag that’s rated for colder temps than what he actually in theory would need.

Myself, I have a 40,20,0 and -20 marmot bag for each of those levels of temps. If temps are expected to get
Below 32, I use the -20 bag. I have used the zero degree bag before on 10 day hunt and didn’t sleep because I was COLD.

Long story short: majority of bags out there have inaccurate ratings.

I do expect to give feathered friends and western mountaineering another try for next season.


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Where does your dad sleep the other 15 days of the year? Not being a dick, genuinely curious.

 

[schwaf]

This may be obvious, but are you eating before you sleep? You won't be warm no matter what system you have if you don't have calories to burn.

 

[Greenbelt]

So I've heard this same exact issue go down before but with different bags. You know what the resounding issue seems to be? The sleeping pad you are on. Klymit has a horrible reputation for keeping people warm due to the ridges cut in them. Do some research on it. It's your sleeping pad. Not the bag. Western mountaineering is the only bag company on the face of the earth that post accurate temp ratings. I run very cold. I slept on a Therma rest pad with a high r value in a shitty bag and some puffys on next to a river at 20 degrees last year looking for Muleys and I was perfectly warm.

 

[Spiegel]

Insulated Static V™ RECON Sleeping Pad

Klymalite™ lofted synthetic insulation creates additional warmth that lasts through the night. Take on cold conditions without sacrificing comfort or pack size. Klymalite lofted synthetic insulation in the pad offers exceptional warmth without the dreaded crinkle noise of other insulated pads...

www.klymit.eu

Click on the Technical Data tab and it says your pad is still a 1.9 ASTM rated pad. I've received a great response from the 2-3 times I've emailed them. And like some have said my bag has only ever been a little to hot but YMMV.

 

[Wrench]

I'd be surprised if there's another human who sleeps colder than I do. My temp runs borderline hypothermic as my normal and my resting heart rate is in the 40's.

I have quite a few nights in the MF badger and in cold weather it sits on a ridgerest.

I woke up cozy the morning of this picture. I wore walmart levels thermals and nothing else. My badger sat inside the lightest Cabela’s bivy which I used to keep my bag clean. It's not waterproof so I used a piece of plastic for a moisture barrier. The temp this morning was 11*f. My only source of heat was the pop can stove in the picture. If there's ever a bag that deserved a shout out, it's mine.

Sincerely,

The coldest sleeping mf on the planet.

 

[repins05]

All the urban outdoorsman I talk with in downtown Denver swear by their Western Mountaineering bags. Lots of them say they won’t even zip them up even when it’s below zero because they get too hot.

I‘m not sure what the R value of a flattened cardboard box is, but that’s what they using for a pad. And, those guys aren’t using merino wool… they just add layer after layer of sweatshirts wino style during the coldest of nights.

Also, the GWS bags are highly water resistant. I heard one guy say he spilled a whole bottle of Mad Dog 20/20 on his bag after he passed out, and when he woke up - he was still 100% dry.

Mad dog 20/20 is all you can afford after you purchase a WM. Well worth it and never had a problem with my GWS.

 

[Scorpion]

Something is definitely amiss with your system if you’re having issues. I’ve used down bags in wet weather and they wouldn’t be my first choice for full time use in western Oregon. That said, you definitely need a better pad.

Are you eating a hot meal before bed?

How often have you laundered the bag?

Airing it out each day?

Showering or at least using baby wipes each day?

I don't usually even zip my 10 deg WM bag in 40-45 degree weather.

 

[sacklunch]

I'm hesitant to offer a suggestion as it seems you're just here to throw stones...but here goes.

Are you using the baffles system correctly to shift the down away from the bottom of the bag to the sides and top? Down does no good when it's crushed between you and your pad. That's the entire point of their baffle system.

Also, a 4r value pad for me is a spring/fall pad. Winter in teens and single digits mean a higher r-value required for me in the badger.

I've had many nights in my Badger... and a handful in confirmed 0-5 deg range...that bag is downright hot into the 20s, cozy in the teens and while not perfect in single digits, its far batter than any 15 deg bag ive used.

Shift the down in the baffles to cover top/sides...place those wool blankets between your pad and your bag, don't drape them on top and crush more down. Report back, I'd bet the difference in night and day.

On the really cold nights, whatever that is to you, boil water and fill a Nalgene, toss it at your feet. Enjoy.