Western Hunting losing it's appeal

[Foldem]

I agree. If you are having trouble finding good public land big game hunting opportunity every year or two out west you are doing something wrong. It's not easy and people don't have realistic expectations from what I've seen.

 

[5MilesBack]

I sure hope it's losing its appeal. But unfortunately, for every guy that drops out I'm sure there are two more ready to jump in.

 

[mrbillbrown]

I guess I’m a little different. I don’t fill my NR elk tag every year during Sept in CO but look forward to going all year long every year. I’m a NR hunter and archery hunt OTC DIY with a few friends I’ve met from Rokslide almost every year for the last 6yrs. I spend all year long training, plotting, planning, evaluating gear changes, and stalking google earth looking forward to seeing my hunting partners again, being in the mountains, and chasing elk. Some trips we’ve seen plenty. Some trips we’ve seen none. Each trip is unique and as memorable as the last. Whether I’m harvesting game or not or just spending time in God’s beauty with close friends I’m never happier. I don’t see the price I pay (roughly $1500 per Sept) as anything less than fortunate to be able to do it.

 

[midwest_wi]

I decided I'm not going to do this point accumulation thing. I went out for the first time last fall ('20), should have been there in the fall of '19 but had to cancel that at the last minute. I started thinking of the costs and just decided that otc tags will do me just fine. I'm not a trophy hunter, it is more about the overall experience for me, much like it was for my mentor (my grandfather) who went out every year since the late 40's with his two buddies. Sometimes you get something and sometimes you don't, all that matters is you hunt hard and have fun. I'm ok with that. This last fall I was somewhat disheartened by the numbers of hunters, and honestly I was kind of disappointed in what hunting has apparently become for so many. The forest service road was like a traffic jam and every single small clearing had anything from a full size school bus, to motorhomes, to RVs, etc. Our little canvas teepee tent looked really out of place! And the fact we didn't have a razor or atv made us even more out of place, but I noticed something and that was that a large percentage of these hunters never left the road. Many of them simply cruised the forest service road after fresh snow looking for tracks, basically just road hunted. We noticed two different times they actually ran each other off the road at turns. I can honestly say that we never cut any human tracks more than 250 yards from the forest service road (we had almost 16" of snow one night at 9200 feet). My brother was with me and I won't forget this trip ever. We just had a good experience overall. Now having learned a tiny bit I am going back out again to the same otc unit and know a bit more to just get a ways out from the roads and for the most part should have an even better experience and after a few years of this I think will make an even greater impact. I also noted that the leftover draw is an opportunity that many are probably not taking advantage of. I picked up a deer tag which usually takes 2-3 years to draw (from my limited understanding) and was actually able to fill it on the third day with a nice (to me) 4x4. So yes there are some challenges but we can also do a lot for ourselves by learning from some of the other so-called hunters that are really there for an armed camping experience. Oh and that pack out (even only a mulie) what an amazing experience just in itself ha ha!

 

[ODB]

Shhhhh. Keep that rabbit in the hat please.

ha! Funny, I’ve never really been interested in hunting bears but this winter has dragged on and I’m looking forward to being in the field with a gun again...idaho bears watch out!

 

[tdhanses]

I decided I'm not going to do this point accumulation thing. I went out for the first time last fall ('20), should have been there in the fall of '19 but had to cancel that at the last minute. I started thinking of the costs and just decided that otc tags will do me just fine. I'm not a trophy hunter, it is more about the overall experience for me, much like it was for my mentor (my grandfather) who went out every year since the late 40's with his two buddies. Sometimes you get something and sometimes you don't, all that matters is you hunt hard and have fun. I'm ok with that. This last fall I was somewhat disheartened by the numbers of hunters, and honestly I was kind of disappointed in what hunting has apparently become for so many. The forest service road was like a traffic jam and every single small clearing had anything from a full size school bus, to motorhomes, to RVs, etc. Our little canvas teepee tent looked really out of place! And the fact we didn't have a razor or atv made us even more out of place, but I noticed something and that was that a large percentage of these hunters never left the road. Many of them simply cruised the forest service road after fresh snow looking for tracks, basically just road hunted. We noticed two different times they actually ran each other off the road at turns. I can honestly say that we never cut any human tracks more than 250 yards from the forest service road (we had almost 16" of snow one night at 9200 feet). My brother was with me and I won't forget this trip ever. We just had a good experience overall. Now having learned a tiny bit I am going back out again to the same otc unit and know a bit more to just get a ways out from the roads and for the most part should have an even better experience and after a few years of this I think will make an even greater impact. I also noted that the leftover draw is an opportunity that many are probably not taking advantage of. I picked up a deer tag which usually takes 2-3 years to draw (from my limited understanding) and was actually able to fill it on the third day with a nice (to me) 4x4. So yes there are some challenges but we can also do a lot for ourselves by learning from some of the other so-called hunters that are really there for an armed camping experience. Oh and that pack out (even only a mulie) what an amazing experience just in itself ha ha!

I wouldn’t be shocked if at some point otc taxes I mean tags are something of the past.

 

[NomadHunter603]

I love to hunt as much as the next guy, but I have never felt the urge to throw money into a out of state hunt every year. Seems like that’s what people are thinking they have to do. It’s seems like there trying to replicate what they see and hear from the pros. I have one hunt I want to do out of state and that will probably be in ten years. Black bear in Alaska, nothing fancy or crazy or even all that expensive.Other then that I just try to master what I have available in my state.

Kind of dependent on where you live I think. Going by our user name, I’m guessing it’s in a state that has elk, bear, mule deer, white tail, maybe even moose and antelope?? That’s understandable. For me, from the north east, New Hampshire specifically. It’s mostly white tail and a short and improperly ran black bear season. They do a moose lottery with about 50 tags. Most of the land you’re hunting is private land. Basically as long as you’re 100 yards from a house and the land isn’t posted, you can hunt it. So you’re mostly hunting small plots with extremely pressured deer. It’s honestly hard hunting. If you get a deer every year or nearly every year, you’re honestly doing damn good. I started western hunting 3 years ago. First time was south west Colorado, probably won’t ever go back lol. Second time was a fly in to the frank church. And last year I went to the selway. Needless to say, I’ll be heading back to the frank church. Everyone said not to go because there’s places that have much better animal populations. But we saw lots of critters compared to back home. It’s truly some beautiful country and a good adventure and that’s largely what I’m after. An animal is icing on the cake. The joy in coming out west for me is to have all of that land to explore. It honestly ruined hunting back home for me haha. I’ll probably be moving back to Alaska next year.


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[midwest_wi]

I wouldn’t be shocked if at some point otc taxes I mean tags are something of the past.

I think that is probably going to be how it goes unfortunately. This insanity with the points/accumulation/creep/etc is just not a game I'm going to play, I will just go where I can when I can, for now that is Colorado. A few years back I told my grandfather how many years/points it would take to draw his favorite Colorado unit and he just looked at me like I was insane. And since then it has creeped up there even more.

 

[PNW bow hunter]

I hear people complain that hunting out west is turning into a rich mans sport, and the average Joe can't afford it anymore. I don't think people traveling across the country to go on a hunting trip has ever been something the average hunter does. It never was an average Joe thing to take a week or two off work and travel cross country to go elk hunting.

There is tons of opportunity to get out elk hunting without waiting 15 years for a tag. Not everyone can get a tag in an area with super high success rates on giant bulls, if they could there wouldn't be a bunch of big bulls.

The reality of it is, somewhere around 15 percent of people will fill an elk tag. A huge majority will be happy filling that tag with ANY legal animal. If you want to hunt an area with a higher success rates and trophy elk, this going to be a very limited opportunity.

I also don't think the costs of license and tags has gone up that much in most states over the last 15 years compared to other things. Around 15 years ago I hunted elk in Washington and Idaho as a non resident. I don't remember the exact cost, but both were a little over $600 for license and tag. It looks like Idaho is around $836 for a non resident now. The $236 increase over all those years isn't even close to enuff to discourage people from buying the tag. Back then I could go into walmart in september and buy a tag for the diamond creek zone on the way to go hunting. Now they are gone the first day they go for sale.

The last time I drew a non resident Wyoming deer tag I had bought a new subaru Outback. That was in 2013, and it was $21000 for a brand new one that year. I just looked them up, and a brand new one is $33000. That is over a 50 percent increase in price for that particular new car. Where I live a new house was around $400,000 in 2013, now its worth over $700,000. A new house in the area is $750,0000 to $850,000.

Obviously you may not be able to get THE tag you want every year, but you should be able to elk hunt nearly every year somewhere as a non resident. Everything goes up over time. Don't let a tag going up a few hundred bucks get you all bent out of shape. If it goes up $300, you just need to figure out how to save an extra $25 bucks a month. Any average Joe can do that.

 

[11boo]

A lot of it sucks, but I will keep going. I live for the hunt.
always have.

 

[CJohnson]

If you’re worried about never getting the tag you want through the application process, why not just sock away the same amount of money every year and then buy a landowner tag?

 

[Slugz]

I hear people complain that hunting out west is turning into a rich mans sport, and the average Joe can't afford it anymore. I don't think people traveling across the country to go on a hunting trip has ever been something the average hunter does. It never was an average Joe thing to take a week or two off work and travel cross country to go elk hunting.

There is tons of opportunity to get out elk hunting without waiting 15 years for a tag. Not everyone can get a tag in an area with super high success rates on giant bulls, if they could there wouldn't be a bunch of big bulls.

The reality of it is, somewhere around 15 percent of people will fill an elk tag. A huge majority will be happy filling that tag with ANY legal animal. If you want to hunt an area with a higher success rates and trophy elk, this going to be a very limited opportunity.

I also don't think the costs of license and tags has gone up that much in most states over the last 15 years compared to other things. Around 15 years ago I hunted elk in Washington and Idaho as a non resident. I don't remember the exact cost, but both were a little over $600 for license and tag. It looks like Idaho is around $836 for a non resident now. The $236 increase over all those years isn't even close to enuff to discourage people from buying the tag. Back then I could go into walmart in september and buy a tag for the diamond creek zone on the way to go hunting. Now they are gone the first day they go for sale.

The last time I drew a non resident Wyoming deer tag I had bought a new subaru Outback. That was in 2013, and it was $21000 for a brand new one that year. I just looked them up, and a brand new one is $33000. That is over a 50 percent increase in price for that particular new car. Where I live a new house was around $400,000 in 2013, now its worth over $700,000. A new house in the area is $750,0000 to $850,000.

Obviously you may not be able to get THE tag you want every year, but you should be able to elk hunt nearly every year somewhere as a non resident. Everything goes up over time. Don't let a tag going up a few hundred bucks get you all bent out of shape. If it goes up $300, you just need to figure out how to save an extra $25 bucks a month. Any average Joe can do that.

Love it. Well put. If there is a will there is a way.

 

[Rob5589]

I hear people complain that hunting out west is turning into a rich mans sport, and the average Joe can't afford it anymore. I don't think people traveling across the country to go on a hunting trip has ever been something the average hunter does. It never was an average Joe thing to take a week or two off work and travel cross country to go elk hunting.

There is tons of opportunity to get out elk hunting without waiting 15 years for a tag. Not everyone can get a tag in an area with super high success rates on giant bulls, if they could there wouldn't be a bunch of big bulls.

The reality of it is, somewhere around 15 percent of people will fill an elk tag. A huge majority will be happy filling that tag with ANY legal animal. If you want to hunt an area with a higher success rates and trophy elk, this going to be a very limited opportunity.

I also don't think the costs of license and tags has gone up that much in most states over the last 15 years compared to other things. Around 15 years ago I hunted elk in Washington and Idaho as a non resident. I don't remember the exact cost, but both were a little over $600 for license and tag. It looks like Idaho is around $836 for a non resident now. The $236 increase over all those years isn't even close to enuff to discourage people from buying the tag. Back then I could go into walmart in september and buy a tag for the diamond creek zone on the way to go hunting. Now they are gone the first day they go for sale.

The last time I drew a non resident Wyoming deer tag I had bought a new subaru Outback. That was in 2013, and it was $21000 for a brand new one that year. I just looked them up, and a brand new one is $33000. That is over a 50 percent increase in price for that particular new car. Where I live a new house was around $400,000 in 2013, now its worth over $700,000. A new house in the area is $750,0000 to $850,000.

Obviously you may not be able to get THE tag you want every year, but you should be able to elk hunt nearly every year somewhere as a non resident. Everything goes up over time. Don't let a tag going up a few hundred bucks get you all bent out of shape. If it goes up $300, you just need to figure out how to save an extra $25 bucks a month. Any average Joe can do that.

It's never been "cheap" to go out of state. I can recall decades ago my Grandfather complaining about the CO elk tag had gone up to 135.00. It's all relative. I think you're right on; the average Joe hunter hunts near home for the most part.

Could be worse though. There are duck blinds around here that go for 5000-8000+ a hole, for one season.

 

[OMB]

I'm genuinely curious to see how this conversation plays out over the next 5-10 years. Using the below article as a reference, we've got 55% of hunters over the age of 45, and a full 32% over the age of 55. That second group has what, 10-15 realistic years left in the game (and that might be generous)? Obviously without knowing point totals by age in each state it's tough to forecast anything concrete. That being said, we've got the largest cohort of hunters at an age where they're retired and/or have high levels of disposable income most likely cashing out on their dream/once in a lifetime/one last great elk hunt/etc, and we're not replacing that generation at the same rate as we're bringing on new hunters. Sure, Western hunting is as popular as it's ever been right now, and it's probably never going to get much easier to pull a sheep tag or an Arizona Strip mule deer tag, but I'll be patient and take the bet that in 10-12 years, point creep isn't going be any worse than today and there will be plenty of good hunts left to go on.

Why We Suck at Recruiting New Hunters, Why It Matters, and How You Can Fix It

Baby boomers make up our nation's largest cohort of hunters, and they've already begun to age out of the sport. Within 15 years, most will stop buying licenses entirely. And when they do, our ranks could plunge by 30 percent—along with critical funding for wildlife management, advocacy for...

www.outdoorlife.com

 

[morgan1h]

Vacation time is my limiting factor, not my ability to get tags. Even if I was just talkin about NR tags before I moved west. Up your game and mindset, put in real work if it’s something you want, and rely on skills you develop through time and experience in the mountains, not the desirability of some special tag you think you need. Get into archery hunting if you aren’t already, that opens up a lot of options. I’ve killed big animals on general and low point tags, and the hunters I respect most are the ones with the skills to get it done on easy to draw tags year in year out. Yes, things aren’t perfect, but thats just the way of the world. What we have full control over is setting our priorities, the choices we make, and the mindset we take into the world. If that comes out to you not being into western hunting that’s all good too! I’m just saying that I don’t share that perspective at all - I see tons of opportunities that are exciting to me if only I had the time for all of them.


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[Mosby]

I think hunting in general is what you make of it. It is always fluid for me. I stopped hunting out west for several years and went up to Canada for whitetail. I really enjoy whitetail hunting. The last time I went, it just wasn't the same for me. Don't know why. Got a decent buck and decided that it was my last trip to Canada.

Started elk hunting again. I found a unit that was easy to get a tag and the first year we got 3 bulls. Now that same unit has reduced the number of tags and 2-3 times as many people are putting in for it. I will likely not draw this year but I expected that.

For the years I don't draw and to have more to do in the winter, I bought a new gun dog this past year. A nice started German Shorthair. Taking her to a preserve next week. When I draw a tag in Colorado, I will hunt elk. Either way I will go pheasant hunting. PA has a muzzleloading season in October. Easy to get tags for. Half the state is public land.

When you get tired of dealing with something, don't quit hunting. Find something different to hunt.

 

[Traveler]

This thread is gonna start quite the controversy. I am from Missouri and have been hunting out west a few times. Colorado seems so over hunted on elk over the counter. Takes forever to draw a trophy unit or even a decent unit with good odds. I've been putting in for Wyoming elk for 10+ years and the with the point creep it looks like it will be over 15 before I can draw my desired unit. (My dad and his buddies uses to hunt it every other year). Wyoming keeps limiting non resident tags. Most other states are lotteries and who knows when you will draw there. Seems like to me I'm almost wasting money putting in for draws. To me western hunting has turned into a rich man/patient man's game and losing it's appeal. Makes a Midwesterner think I am better off saving up for outfitter tags, hunt Alaska, and just take trips whitetail hunting and upland bird. I know some people will tell me to stop crying, etc. I'm just stating the facts we all pay taxes for this land and us non residents are getting absolutely shafted.

So stop hunting out west.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I gave up on the lower 48 awhile ago, point creep, non resident odds are all pretty tough, heck, even resident odds in some places suck. I moved to AK so I could avoid all that and hunt everything I want each year. It isn't without its downsides though, the amount of gear and gas ive burned through is huge, not to mention things like boats, snowmobiles, flights etc. There can also be pressure here, one area I used to go for moose every year and never see anybody is now something I hear about standing in the line at the grocery store. No matter where you go its tough, I know lots of guys up here who would love to get a moose or a bear but don't know where to start or have anybody to show them.

 

[roadrunner]

These threads crack me up. The OP could have had three above average elk hunts in Wyoming already instead he is holding out for a unit that he probably read about it and won't be the same by the time he draws. Tag costs are going up so is everything else but it is funny to see guys gripe about 1000 dollar elk tags when your driving a 60,000 truck and towing a 20,000 razor behind it. I'll keep hunting and filling tags until I can't physically go anymore which will be a long time.

Except that same guy gets more use and guaranteed outcome out of the 60,000 truck towing the 20,000 razor behind it.

It's foolish to pay 1,000 for just the experience alone when you can that for free...

 

[roadrunner]

Some of the increase is from people that used to apply as groups are now putting in solo to "increase" their chances as a group to win at least one tag and then everyone else goes with to help.

I just want to draw a stupid cow tag in my home state...